Heck ya.. great job!!
Type 81 'M' Reviews, suggestions, upgrades
- Thread starter Dmitri
- Start date
Heck ya.. great job!!
Speed and ease of finishing. Most cheaper wood stocks are finished with a stain and poly (or laquer) finish in a mixed concoction, sprayed on and literally dries in minutes... that, or it's baked for a few minutes and ready to slap on a rifle. Also, if it's stained the same colour, you don't need to 'match' the wood as many times the pieces of wood don't match that well. Just use a heavy opaque stain and it all mostly matches in a couple minutes.
I have a Hogue AR15, Hogue AK47/74 and VZ58 grip in my parts pin. Hogue units look unused... forgot about all this stuff. Might try to fit the AK grip on my T81M if I can't find a wood PG instead. Here they are with some ugly Mossy 500 wood...
So, you guys wanted some details about the refinishing process i used, here it is. But i am not responsible for the the errors that this proccess has room for... 
Wood:
1. Using the 180 - 220 grid sandpaper or sanding block remove the existing finish until you have clean smooth surface through out the part. Make sure to clean inside the groves on the pistol grip . While doing the handguard you have a chance to adjust the shape, like round up the bottom more or remove some of the sweling. This wood is still relatively hard, so you'll need a power sander if you decide to temper with the shape. This is relatively easy step without much room for error.. why not use chemical thinner you ask, i havnt had much luck with what more modern finished .. it will easily remove shelack from your SKS, but it wont do much to t81 wood. At least in my experience.
2. This step is more challenging and risky you need to burn your wood with the torch to contrast the grain. This is where it gets tricky, you hold it 2 seconds longer and its black burned mess that will take forever to sand out. But if you manage to evenly distribute the heat for the right amount of time while stadily moving the torch along tne grain you get some great results.
3. Smooth out the surface slightly with 320 - 600 grit pad, and apply your choice of stain. I use Miniwax penetrating stains.. these latest exampleas were done in "Colonial Mapple 223" aply several times for better depth. Let it dry 24 h. before applying polyurethane.
4. Apply polyurethane, as many coats as you want, but do thin coats to avoid runs, if sprayed properly, there is no need to sand/polish after this point.. This procces can get very messy, very fast. Dont rush it. You can have anywhere from 5 to 20 coats and what ever sheen you desire.
METAL.
1. Using a very fine (burgandy/brown) 3m Scotch-brite pads polish all the exposed surface of the metal. Try to sand out all the blemishes and scratches at this point. You can accent some areas more that others, go a bit extra on edges in the traffic areas.
After that evenly apply "Perma Blue" over most sanded areas. Do one area at the time, keep rubbing the sponge, wait until chemical reaction is done then clean that area nicely from all the remaining blueing residue and move one to the next ( areas the size of a dust cover or one side of the receiver at the time) . Once everything is done and the finish is darkened , go once again with the scotch-brite pad polishing and making accents. After that give it a good dry wipe and cover it evenly with Perma Blue again, then polish some more,
After repeating several times, you will start seeing the finish hou want..
This method is time consuming and frustrating at times, but it will make you feel like an artist
Good luck to those that want to use these technics, please take your time, and have patience.
If some of you guys dont want to risk it or dont have the time to do it i could do it for you, just PM me if needed.
Hope that helps !!
Wood:
1. Using the 180 - 220 grid sandpaper or sanding block remove the existing finish until you have clean smooth surface through out the part. Make sure to clean inside the groves on the pistol grip . While doing the handguard you have a chance to adjust the shape, like round up the bottom more or remove some of the sweling. This wood is still relatively hard, so you'll need a power sander if you decide to temper with the shape. This is relatively easy step without much room for error.. why not use chemical thinner you ask, i havnt had much luck with what more modern finished .. it will easily remove shelack from your SKS, but it wont do much to t81 wood. At least in my experience.
2. This step is more challenging and risky
you need to burn your wood with the torch to contrast the grain. This is where it gets tricky, you hold it 2 seconds longer and its black burned mess that will take forever to sand out. But if you manage to evenly distribute the heat for the right amount of time while stadily moving the torch along tne grain you get some great results.
3. Smooth out the surface slightly with 320 - 600 grit pad, and apply your choice of stain. I use Miniwax penetrating stains.. these latest exampleas were done in "Colonial Mapple 223" aply several times for better depth. Let it dry 24 h. before applying polyurethane.
4. Apply polyurethane, as many coats as you want, but do thin coats to avoid runs, if sprayed properly, there is no need to sand/polish after this point.. This procces can get very messy, very fast. Dont rush it. You can have anywhere from 5 to 20 coats and what ever sheen you desire.
METAL.
1. Using a very fine (burgandy/brown) 3m Scotch-brite pads polish all the exposed surface of the metal. Try to sand out all the blemishes and scratches at this point. You can accent some areas more that others, go a bit extra on edges in the traffic areas.
After that evenly apply "Perma Blue" over most sanded areas. Do one area at the time, keep rubbing the sponge, wait until chemical reaction is done then clean that area nicely from all the remaining blueing residue and move one to the next ( areas the size of a dust cover or one side of the receiver at the time) . Once everything is done and the finish is darkened , go once again with the scotch-brite pad polishing and making accents. After that give it a good dry wipe and cover it evenly with Perma Blue again, then polish some more,
After repeating several times, you will start seeing the finish hou want..
This method is time consuming and frustrating at times, but it will make you feel like an artist
Good luck to those that want to use these technics, please take your time, and have patience.
If some of you guys dont want to risk it or dont have the time to do it i could do it for you, just PM me if needed.
Hope that helps !!
The finished wood looks excellent, good idea with the burning. I am not the biggest fan of your cold blueing. You can get much better results if you are using steel wool, which comes in different abrasions (that way you can avoid the streaks), the metal can be heated a few minutes in the oven before applying the cold blue, you can also wash the first coat of cold blue off with hot water in order to get more durability. Unless you wanted the look you achieved, for me it would be a bit too uneven colouring with the high and low spots. Not criticizing, just giving people different ideas. I would also not use 220 sand paper for the wood, oven cleaner or stripper so you don't remove any wood. Then 400 to get it even. You take excellent pictures by the way. Your top handguard metal still needs finishing, hehe. Cold blue can applied many times but in order to be even, the starting point has to be even too, just like painting a car. That's why you still have shiny spots.
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So, you guys wanted some details about the refinishing process i used, here it is. But i am not responsible for the the errors that this proccess has room for...
Wood:
1. Using the 180 - 220 grid sandpaper or sanding block remove the existing finish until you have clean smooth surface through out the part. Make sure to clean inside the groves on the pistol grip . While doing the handguard you have a chance to adjust the shape, like round up the bottom more or remove some of the sweling. This wood is still relatively hard, so you'll need a power sander if you decide to temper with the shape. This is relatively easy step without much room for error.. why not use chemical thinner you ask, i havnt had much luck with what more modern finished .. it will easily remove shelack from your SKS, but it wont do much to t81 wood. At least in my experience.
2. This step is more challenging and risky
3. Smooth out the surface slightly with 320 - 600 grit pad, and apply your choice of stain. I use Miniwax penetrating stains.. these latest exampleas were done in "Colonial Mapple 223" aply several times for better depth. Let it dry 24 h. before applying polyurethane.
4. Apply polyurethane, as many coats as you want, but do thin coats to avoid runs, if sprayed properly, there is no need to sand/polish after this point.. This procces can get very messy, very fast. Dont rush it. You can have anywhere from 5 to 20 coats and what ever sheen you desire.
METAL.
1. Using a very fine (burgandy/brown) 3m Scotch-brite pads polish all the exposed surface of the metal. Try to sand out all the blemishes and scratches at this point. You can accent some areas more that others, go a bit extra on edges in the traffic areas.
After that evenly apply "Perma Blue" over most sanded areas. Do one area at the time, keep rubbing the sponge, wait until chemical reaction is done then clean that area nicely from all the remaining blueing residue and move one to the next ( areas the size of a dust cover or one side of the receiver at the time) . Once everything is done and the finish is darkened , go once again with the scotch-brite pad polishing and making accents. After that give it a good dry wipe and cover it evenly with Perma Blue again, then polish some more,
After repeating several times, you will start seeing the finish hou want..
This method is time consuming and frustrating at times, but it will make you feel like an artist
Good luck to those that want to use these technics, please take your time, and have patience.
If some of you guys dont want to risk it or dont have the time to do it i could do it for you, just PM me if needed.
Hope that helps !!
Yeah!!!
The factory finish is a joke to begin with. Every time I sell a type 81, I am afraid the buyer gets back to me, asking what POS I sold him. It is not durable at all and not much care taken in prepping, But I guess that's like selling a used car. Don't fix anything, make it appear nice. I don't get it why they changed it over time, the first batch still was the best. Cost savings?
Vicorjr_26
Member
- Location
- Calgary AB
great job! Thank you
Hey Scianna, thanks for the advice on cold bluing, i will try warming things up before applying the blueing. And steel wool is excellent idea if your task is to remove the existing finish before complete re-blueing job. In my case, that was not what i was trying to achieve. I wanted to smooth out and polish the original factory finish and give it a bit of shine, and weathered look. Once the surface was polished and pleasant to touch, i found the finish to be a bit thinner then i wanted, after applying the Perma Blue, i noticed that the correct tone was coming back with more pleasant sheen. After balancing it out with multiple coats of blue and more polishing i achieved the finish i had in mind.
Also, the actual finish is much nicer than i could capture on camera. I will try to take some pictures in the day light, beside factory blued t81 SR .. it will give you better idea of how it looks.
As for sandpaper, i changed the shape of the handguard a bit, made it more round at the bottom as well as adjusted the recessed area on the upper handguard for better visual allignment with the bottom sweling. So sanding some finish off was not an issue. But i did have issues in the past with chemical stripper, when poly didnt want to stick at some places, where it was hard to clean out..
And yes i still need to address the metal near the upper handguard, havnt had a chance yet..
Cheers.
You can use mineral spirits after the chemical stripper (or even citrus based) and it will neutralize everything.
Did you get those great results without using a wood conditioner before the staining process?
Many seem to be afraid of sanding, but when done properly - you won't damage your piece. Improper sanding however, will make it look terrible. Lots of info online. There's a great woodworker with fantastic tips on all size projects called Stumpy Nubs... I was going to follow his Shellac recipe from scratch and see what I could do.
Anyone using these petroleum based products should make sure they're outdoors or wear a proper vapor respirator. (Don't ask me how I know after refinishing my floors...). You only get one set of lungs and this stuff is straight up poison. I'd actually like to see if anyone gets good results with water based stains/poly.
Or one could go a more non-harmful route and just do Linseed or Shellac. If the wood has similar figure to the OP's, the results should be very nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDYPGgjQmF4
Did you get those great results without using a wood conditioner before the staining process?
Many seem to be afraid of sanding, but when done properly - you won't damage your piece. Improper sanding however, will make it look terrible. Lots of info online. There's a great woodworker with fantastic tips on all size projects called Stumpy Nubs... I was going to follow his Shellac recipe from scratch and see what I could do.
Anyone using these petroleum based products should make sure they're outdoors or wear a proper vapor respirator. (Don't ask me how I know after refinishing my floors...). You only get one set of lungs and this stuff is straight up poison. I'd actually like to see if anyone gets good results with water based stains/poly.
Or one could go a more non-harmful route and just do Linseed or Shellac. If the wood has similar figure to the OP's, the results should be very nice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDYPGgjQmF4
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I am trying out this matching wood cheek rest. Its still more of à chin rest but at least its not cold to the face.. i doubt anything taller than this will work with the underfolder... if the riser is any taller, you'll need to twist your had pretty bad to get to the center line. But this one works and looks good. I left the top of the cheek rest paralel to the bore/reveiver, didnt want to follow the stock slant.
I havnt secured it to tne stock arm yet, still thinking of the best way to do that, might just drill and tap and bolt it on. We'll see..
I havnt secured it to tne stock arm yet, still thinking of the best way to do that, might just drill and tap and bolt it on. We'll see..
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Took the new underfolder to the range today. Ran about 50 rounds through it. No issues, no stoppages.
Forgot the sight wrench so couldn't adjust it. Was 3" high and 3" right at 50 yards, grouping around 4MOA with garbage chinese spam can ammo.
Didn't take any Barnaul - saving it for a rainy day since it's now unobtainium. My old T81SA was about 3MOA using the Barnaul which I would expect with the M as well.
Brought it home and ran boiling water through it and the gas system. Cleaned up real nice.
Fun rifle to shoot, let my hunting buddy have a go at it and a young kid who was there shooting his 22LR. He had a smile on his face after the T81 and then a Garand which he nailed 8 shots at 100 yards.
Forgot the sight wrench so couldn't adjust it. Was 3" high and 3" right at 50 yards, grouping around 4MOA with garbage chinese spam can ammo.
Didn't take any Barnaul - saving it for a rainy day since it's now unobtainium. My old T81SA was about 3MOA using the Barnaul which I would expect with the M as well.
Brought it home and ran boiling water through it and the gas system. Cleaned up real nice.
Fun rifle to shoot, let my hunting buddy have a go at it and a young kid who was there shooting his 22LR. He had a smile on his face after the T81 and then a Garand which he nailed 8 shots at 100 yards.
Link to main Type 81 mod thread on GNutzGuy paracord/wood riser crafting and AK buttpad and 3D printed cheek riser installation, https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1661873-Type-81-pictures-range-reports-and-modifications-thread?p=20157687&viewfull=1#post20157687 .
Just took my T8m Fixed out to the range today and I'm thoroughly unimpressed. Not sure if its the geometry of my face or the stock, but it was very hard to get a good cheek weld and attain a good sight picture. I managed to get it to work, but it was not very comfortable. Anyone else experience the same thing?
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