Type 81 vs wk180c 7.62x39

James1873

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Was thinking of picking up a type 81 folder next shipment ti bring in. But was also considering a wk180c in 7.62x39.

is one better then the other in terms of accuracy and reliability?

update:

couldn’t wait for ti to bring in more t81’s, so left me with the wk. Ended up picking up an m10x-z for Black Friday sale for a decent price, reviews seemed comparable between the m10x and any 180 type rifle in 7.62, rolled the dice on m10x. Took it out of the box and fired 60 rounds no issues with it, ended up working out so far for me, because its optics ready vs t81 I’d have to add $200 right off the bat for the side mount, another 200 plus for the quad rail, so would have ended up being same price as this m10x.

I like it so far see how it holds up after some more rounds through it!
 
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Highly doubt the 180c will ever match the Type 81sa when it comes to reliability and durability. Accuracy reports for Type 81sa's are all over the place... claims anywhere between 2-5 moa. Honestly i still think a majority of the rifle versions are basically 4-5moa guns where as the LMGs are indicating signs of being under that especially if u de clutter the barrel (remove bipod, cleaning rod and retainer). Ive yet to properly bench my LMGs.
 
One more thing to consider is length of pull. If you are a really tall person, you may find the Type 81 short to shoot comfortably. There is no real way to fix that with the folder, but if you get the solid stock, you can install a modded Zhukov variable length of pull folder, or use a Type 81 to VZ58 adapter with AR Buffer tube adapter.

Accuracy may be helped by getting an optic with the Type 81, but that will require the additional cost of a TI no-drill rail, drilling standard rail, or Murray 3-D's upcoming rail solution. The WK has the rail by default.

The Type 81 has the unbeatable com-bloc reliability. I consider myself an info enthusiast on both the Type 81 and WK platform on this and other forums, and I haven't heard of functional issues with the Type 81 here. There were a small number of rifles bent beyond a certain reasonable measure, but that is immediately apparent, and not a function of hardware dependability.

The WK, on the .556 platform is known for having significant teething problems, including BCGs that disintegrated. That particular issue seems to have been solved as of late, but pistons are still known to be somewhat regularly destroyed, and the screw in charging handle likes to fly away on you or snap. The new shouldered charging handle does somewhat help, as does the SBI enhanced charging handle. You can also get the original non-screw in handle and BCG that can score the side of the charging channel, but otherwise does not cause problems or break. The True North Arms upper has an improved nickel plated BCG, with a screw in charging handle with an indexing dowel that inserts into a matching socket on the BCG. It also has a brass bushing instead of nickel for the piston. The piston problem is likely from the system being over gassed without the stamped and riveted dependability of the the Type 81. This may be an even more pronounced issue with the 7.62x39 mm version of the gun, as the bigger cartridge has more forceful gas exhaust then the .556. The gas block fasteners can loosen with shooting, causing the block to tilt over time and torque the piston, resulting in increasing stress until the piston rod snaps. Thread locking of the gas block is advised to help prevent this. Swapping out the gas block for an adjustable one from TNA (call as they don't currently have a site listing) may help, as you could dial the gas down to the level required to cycle your preferred ammo. If you're going to swap the barrel out for a premium accuracy barrel, you could also get a longer piston rod, either mid from Third Echelon or full rifle length from True North Arms, and that may further reduce stress on the system.

The WK has the advantages of modularity, and can be made more accurate and dependable with the addition of money, but it will never be as dependable as the Type 81. Outside of extensive gunsmithing (like the Grendel barrel swap LMG someone posted a while back), there is no way to easily increase the accuracy of the Type 81 beyond throwing the optic on board, and perhaps removing for-end accessories from the LMG like Murray stated.

One intangible is you are supporting the local Canadian gun manufacturing industry with the WK, whereas you are only supporting a distributor with the Type 81.

It is up to the buyer what of the above factors matter the most to them when choosing between the two firearms. Ideally, one would get both :p
 
thanks for taking the time giving me your experience on both rifles. I was thinking wk due to ergonomics and built in rail, and Canadian made is a big plus, but I don’t think I want to deal with another gunsmith special (had my fun with a browning buckmark I’ve owned for 2 years but only in my possession for maybe 2 months… longish story there). So I think I’ll wait for a t81 restock and pick one up and hope it’s not unreasonably bent. I keep buying and selling sks’s because I like the rifle, just not the fixed magazine and traditional stock, t81 looks to be a decent upgrade from an Sks. I’ll just have to figure optic mounting options if I do get the 81.

One more thing to consider is length of pull. If you are a really tall person, you may find the Type 81 short to shoot comfortably. There is no real way to fix that with the folder, but if you get the solid stock, you can install a modded Zhukov variable length of pull folder, or use a Type 81 to VZ58 adapter with AR Buffer tube adapter.

Accuracy may be helped by getting an optic with the Type 81, but that will require the additional cost of a TI no-drill rail, drilling standard rail, or Murray 3-D's upcoming rail solution. The WK has the rail by default.

The Type 81 has the unbeatable com-bloc reliability. I consider myself an info enthusiast on both the Type 81 and WK platform on this and other forums, and I haven't heard of functional issues with the Type 81 here. There were a small number of rifles bent beyond a certain reasonable measure, but that is immediately apparent, and not a function of hardware dependability.

The WK, on the .556 platform is known for having significant teething problems, including BCGs that disintegrated. That particular issue seems to have been solved as of late, but pistons are still known to be somewhat regularly destroyed, and the screw in charging handle likes to fly away on you or snap. The new shouldered charging handle does somewhat help, as does the SBI enhanced charging handle. You can also get the original non-screw in handle and BCG that can score the side of the charging channel, but otherwise does not cause problems or break. The True North Arms upper has an improved nickel plated BCG, with a screw in charging handle with an indexing dowel that inserts into a matching socket on the BCG. It also has a brass bushing instead of nickel for the piston. The piston problem is likely from the system being over gassed without the stamped and riveted dependability of the the Type 81. This may be an even more pronounced issue with the 7.62x39 mm version of the gun, as the bigger cartridge has more forceful gas exhaust then the .556. The gas block fasteners can loosen with shooting, causing the block to tilt over time and torque the piston, resulting in increasing stress until the piston rod snaps. Thread locking of the gas block is advised to help prevent this. Swapping out the gas block for an adjustable one from TNA (call as they don't currently have a site listing) may help, as you could dial the gas down to the level required to cycle your preferred ammo. If you're going to swap the barrel out for a premium accuracy barrel, you could also get a longer piston rod, either mid from Third Echelon or full rifle length from True North Arms, and that may further reduce stress on the system.

The WK has the advantages of modularity, and can be made more accurate and dependable with the addition of money, but it will never be as dependable as the Type 81. Outside of extensive gunsmithing (like the Grendel barrel swap LMG someone posted a while back), there is no way to easily increase the accuracy of the Type 81 beyond throwing the optic on board, and perhaps removing for-end accessories from the LMG like Murray stated.

One intangible is you are supporting the local Canadian gun manufacturing industry with the WK, whereas you are only supporting a distributor with the Type 81.

It is up to the buyer what of the above factors matter the most to them when choosing between the two firearms. Ideally, one would get both :p
 
One new wild card you may want to consider is the R18 MK2. I'm not sure if 7.62x39 mm will be available upon release, but the distributor claims to have worked with Sterling to make a high end, dependable 180 based platform at a premium price. We need to see how the platform functions after release, but that knowledge may come to us before the next Type 81 release. The platform does come with a rifle length piston out of the box, a good sign. We will see if it meets its claims...
 
thanks for taking the time giving me your experience on both rifles. I was thinking wk due to ergonomics and built in rail, and Canadian made is a big plus, but I don’t think I want to deal with another gunsmith special (had my fun with a browning buckmark I’ve owned for 2 years but only in my possession for maybe 2 months… longish story there). So I think I’ll wait for a t81 restock and pick one up and hope it’s not unreasonably bent. I keep buying and selling sks’s because I like the rifle, just not the fixed magazine and traditional stock, t81 looks to be a decent upgrade from an Sks. I’ll just have to figure optic mounting options if I do get the 81.

buy while you can ...
 
Well, one is battle proven reliable and one is rather new for the market. I have 5.56 WK and 7.62 T81 with kobra sight. When it comes to 7.62 I always prefer the Red rifles as these things were build for the caliber. Also the WK's magwell looks really ugly with that angle, it bugs me everytime I look at it lol
 
If you don't want to wait, you may want to call True North Arms up and have them build 7.62x39 mm of the WK with their enhanced upper and lower, with one of their rifle length pistons and an adjustable gas block. It would be more expensive then a base WK, but would likely be more dependable.
 
I personally own both. If I had to choose one it would easily be the WK180C for the blow reasons.

Accuracy: The WK180C is a 2.5-3moa rifle with Chinese Surplus, the Type 81 LMG is a 4moa rifle that needs much more weight and a bipod to get it.

Optics: The WK180C has the ability to mount any optic you want with ease. The Type 81 has a heavy expensive add on that gives you a chin weld and not many choices.

Weapon lights, bipods, grips, lasers and other accessories: With the WK180C you use your MLOK & rail space with no issues. With the Type 81 you pull out your gaffa tape and start telling your friends how it's "just as good"

Modularity: The WK180C lets you change out the stock, trigger, pistol grip, handguard, optics, and barrel. The type 81 lets you add things too but these need to be fitted and require a lot more time and money.

Reliability: The WK180C definitely had initial issues but things like the carriers breaking are mostly a thing of the past. The two core issues are misaligned gas blocks causing pistons to break and the screw in cocking handle (even the gen 3). If I had to shoot 10,000 rounds in a row and get the least issues it would be with the Type 81, that being said if something ever does break on your type 81 good luck getting it fixed.

Magazines: With the type 81 you can eather put up with heavy 5/30 mags or cut plastic AK mags. With the WK180C you have 5/5s, 5/10s, 5/20s 5/30s, and of course pistol mags that are so you get your 10rd capacity.

Get the WK180C
 
I’ve used the T81 and MCR in 7.62.
-safety manipulation goes to MCR, I’d be down for an AK style safety on the T81
-charging/reloads goes to T81 IMO. I’ve had mag fit issues with the 7.62 Promags on the MCR and the charging handle I find awkward on the MCR unless you add the external bolt release
-MCR is heavier
-haven’t compared accuracy yet
-I find it simpler and faster to clean the T81, which matters with surplus ammo
-If you are forced to choose pick both
 
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I think it boils down to intended use. If you want a super rugged, goes-bang-every-damn-time, durable rifle made by-commies-for-commies to endure battle-like conditions? Type 81. If you want a tacticool range blaster that you can bolt on whatever tactical widget or gee-gaw tickles your fancy? Wk is your gun.

No 7.62x39 gun is a sniper rifle, and I think each will get the job done at any realistic engagement distance if you zero the gun.

Also I have heard the horror stories of the M10x, and would be wary of buying one myself. However some shooters that I have a great deal of respect for have been having some success lately with them. So who knows.
 
If you dont mind a stock rifle, get a Type 81. I had one and modded it a bit but it was SO heavy (like 10-11lbs with the quad rail) and limited to 5 round mags.

The weight and mag capacity were enough for me to sell my T81 and buy parts to build a custom short barrel TNA 180. You get better ergos, easily 2-3lbs lighter even with an 18" barrel, better trigger, more accurate, 10 round mags etc

Either way you go I would NOT get a 180 in 7.62x39. 7.62x39 AR type bolts (which the WK is based off) are notorious for breaking bolt lugs and Id imagine the WK is no different. I could be wrong but generally 7.62x39 AR bolts are .223 size bolts with the face opened up to make space for a larger case leaving not much meat around the bolt lugs.

If this isnt the case with the WK lemme know but I know it was a common problem with 7.62x39 AR15s.
 
I think it boils down to intended use. If you want a super rugged, goes-bang-every-damn-time, durable rifle made by-commies-for-commies to endure battle-like conditions? Type 81. If you want a tacticool range blaster that you can bolt on whatever tactical widget or gee-gaw tickles your fancy? Wk is your gun.

No 7.62x39 gun is a sniper rifle, and I think each will get the job done at any realistic engagement distance if you zero the gun.

Also I have heard the horror stories of the M10x, and would be wary of buying one myself. However some shooters that I have a great deal of respect for have been having some success lately with them. So who knows.

iraq disagreed with your statement ... on the 7.62x39 no gun is a sniper rifle ... well tell me what is your definition of a sniper rifle?
 
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