U.S. M1911A1 rig-with provanance-value in Canada?

drm3m

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Location
Montreal Quebec
These pistols are pretty hard to find in Canada.
I purchased this rig from the U.S. vets family on March 27 2004.
He had enlisted before the U.S. entered the war in Canada as a civilian pilot with R.A.F. Ferry Command delivering aircraft first to the U.K. and then all over.

This Colt was manufactured in 1942, it is W.B inspected-(Waldemar Broberg Col. US Army)

TobinsColt1911A1pistolrigmanufacturedin1942.jpg

Purchasedin2004fromthefamilyoftheVetthatownedit.jpg

Fullrightside-1.jpg

WBinspectionmarking-2.jpg

ColtM1911A11942DSC01314-3.jpg

CommercialmagsdivertedtothemilitaycontractbyColtin1942-accordingtoJohnnyPeppers.jpg

DSC01154-1.jpg

1918datedmagazinepouchmanufacturedbyRLLong.jpg

268kbsTobinsnameonpouchesDSC02313-1.jpg


Here is who the vets was.

DSC01092.jpg


He is on the right.

Ontheright-theVetthatbroughtbackthisrig.jpg

RAFCertificatefortheVetthatbroughtbacktheM1911A1rig.jpg

GSTobinsPilotsFlyingLogBookDSC02537.jpg


The aircraft that he flew.
AircraftflownbyCaptGSTobin.jpg

An ammunition delivery to Egypt in advance of the Battle of El Alamein.(1942)

Tobinphoto32.jpg


Some of his stuff.

DSC01046.jpg


Question;

What is a Colt rig like this worth in Canada? (Not with all the other stuff.)

David
 
Last edited:
In 1944, the Canadian Gov't purchased 1,515 Colt 1911A1's for the use of the Canadian Forces. They are marked with the Canadian Broad Arrow just below the magazine on the left side of the frame and behind the serrations on the left side of the slide. They are very hard to find, but they can be found. I did at an auction in Red Deer last year.
 
Holy Smokes. That thing is beautiful.

I'm curious to see what people say it's worth. At only 1500 ever brought into the country I am guessing it's worth some cake...like Luger territory.
 
.
Having a Pilot's Licence, and also having the good fortune to have flown four of the aircraft listed in Tobin's Log Book, I am almost stunned at the different types of Aircraft that he flew.

Back in the late 1950s when I got my licence, there were a few of these Ferry Pilots who were still alive, and if you could get them talking, there were a lot of good stories told. One woman who delivered aircraft to different bases both in Canada and England was especially interesting. Apparently, they were given a large book that had a Basic Manual for different aircraft, and they opened it to the pages that gave the procedures for the type of aircraft they were about to fly, the VERY BASIC information was there for them. She said on one day, she delivered a Tiger Moth, a Hurricane and a B-24 Liberator to different Air Force Bases in Canada. Now that is an assortment.

You can also see the progression in this Log Book as the Pilot got more experience, starting with a single engine Fleet Trainer, to Fighters, to light twins, to more advanced twins, and up to four engine aircraft.

This is one of those priceless records of WWII that, from a Historical viewpoint, HAS to be kept together and preserved.
.
.
 
Wow that collection is a true piece of history. You should feel honored to have it. Where would we be without those brave young men and women who risked it all for us. I'll tell you concentration camps or never would have been born at all. It should definitely be preserved. You are very lucky to own such a great piece history.
 
For the complete collection you could name your price, several thousand!!! I would be intrested but only in the complete collection so that we could keep it all together and place on display here. I have a soft spot for rare groups like this as the last photo shows a B24, my Dad was a Flight Engineer on these and flew with RAF in the Middle East.
 
As I've said before, it's one of the nicest M1911A1 groupings I've seen in Canada.

I'm sure if you ever sell it will bring a substantial amount of money.

There are very few nice authentic Colt M1911A1's in original condition in Canada. They rarely appear for sale.

Your rig appears to be made from WWI surplus web gear, probably because he enlisted so early in the war this was what was available. It goes well with your early WWII Colt. The three minty "commercial to military" parkerized base mags are a sweet bonus and correct for your Colts serial range.

Do you have any pictures of Tobin wearing the rig?
 
Thanks for all the interest in this Colt rig.

No Steve, I don’t have a photo of the vet wearing this rig, and you are right part of the rig components are WWI and part are WWII.

I am not a seller yet, as this M1911A1 fits in with my small U.S. WWII collection.
That will change some day.

Americanstuff.jpg

DSC01925-1.jpg


Two Bavarian marked Inland carbines-barrel dated 1943. (Post war used in occupied Germany.)
DSC09473.jpg



Tobin was part of the No.45 Group flying out of Montreal Canada.
This is a fascinating book that really tells the story of Ferry Command.
The vet appears in this book in a number of photos.

TobinwaspartoftheNo45GroupflyingoutofMontrealCanada.jpg


Tobin’s copy of the book # 158 out of 500 published copies.

Tobinscopyofthebooknumber138outof500published.jpg

Tobinscopyofthisbook.jpg


Tobin seated front row far right.

Tobinseatedfrontrowfarright.jpg


The vet....I don't know where?

TobinnotsurewhereDSC01968.jpg


David
 
Last edited:
David,

Here's a M1911A1 grouping I picked up a couple years ago right here on CGN. I have no idea who this belonged to though, or if the box is veteran or collector made:

5580214135_ca88ac6282.jpg


5580215269_36686a8d6a.jpg


7084706173_d12f48dd6a.jpg


My most significant 1911 is actually from WWI.

7089067533_18393527e5.jpg


6942996748_b6b23caa77.jpg


It's not in mint condition, but it's a real war veteran.

"That would be Lieutenant William Forrest Cooke, born Aug 26, 1882 in Hull Quebec. He attested as an Other Ranks soldier and was assigned service number 102524, but was discharged almost right away to receive a commission. When he declared (attested) as a Lieutenant on Aug 21, 1915 in the 67th Battalion he was the president of Northern Lumber & Mercantile Co. Ltd. in Prince George B.C. He had previously served as a Corporal in the Boer War. During the war he received field promotions to Captain (Oct 23, 1916) and Major (May 12, 1917). He transferred to the 54th Battn for a short time in May 1917, and then transferred to the CFC (167th Battn). He was promoted to Lieutenant-Colonel Jan 11, 1919, before demobilization. He was awarded the DSO Jan 1, 1918 (London Gazette 30563, dated Mar 8, 1918, pg. 2973), and was twice Mentioned in Despatches in 1917. He appears to have suffered two wounds at different times, but I don't have the details." -Canadiansoldiers.com

Collections Canada has an overwhelming amount of his documents available online at this link:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/cef/1001-2000/1957-29.pdf

Cheers,
-Steve
 
Steve1987, you have some nice pistols there. Love the fact that you get the information and story behind the piece when you can. Great collecting. Thanks for posting.
 
Steve 1987,

Two very nice pistols you posted photos of.
Interesting presentation box for the M1911A1 and I like the history that you were able to discover for your 1911.
I love those blued 1911s.
You have done well finding nice stuff on CGN.

David
 
Tobin (the vet) was with the R.A.F. No. 45 Group.
These were the routes that they flew.

DSC00871.jpg

AAF-I-11.jpg


Some of the overseas locations mentioned in Tobin’s RAF Log Book….either destinations,or stops in the course of going somewhere regarding aircraft delivery.

-Christmas Islands.-Greenland.-Iceland.-Nassau.-B.W.I. (British West Indies)-Bermuda. Ras el- Mar (Morocco).-Habbaniya.-(Iraq)- Azores Islands (Portuguese)-
Rabat. (Capital of Morocco)
-Karachi.(Pakistan)- Cairo. (Egypt)- Trinidad.- Belem (Brazil)- Natal (Brazil) Ascension.(Island) South Atlantic Ocean.-Accra. (Ghana)- Khartoum (Sudan)-
Cardiff. (Wales)
-Bathurst.- London .-Rome.- Gibraltar.- Kano. (Nigeria)
-Hickam. (O’ahu Hawaii-Borders Pearl Harbour)
-Fiji.-Paris
Australia, India.

Perhaps Tobin's last Liberator delivery was to Dhubalia in India in June 1945.
This particular aircraft KN 751 ended up back in the RAF museum in England in 1974.
It was refurbished in India and flown back to the UK by one of the vet's old flying buddies.

This letter to the vet describes this rather interesting story.

letterDSC01871.jpg


aircraftDSC01875.jpg


KN751B-24fail13wb.jpg


The arrival back in England.

RAFreceptionLyneham-EnglandDSC02581.jpg


KN 751 in the museum in England.

KN751inthemuseum2005-th.jpg



David
 
In researching stuff about the vet I tripped over these articles.
I think these Ferry Command pilots spent a fair amount of time in Cairo back then.
Sounds like it was a wild and wide open city.

(If you have the patience and interest to read this?)

The vet is on second camel to the right (rear)

CairoprobablyNovember1942DSC01904.jpg


A post card to his parents-1943.

PostcardtohisParentsJan121943DSC01863.jpg



(A little history)
WWII Excerpts from "Cairo, Biography of a City"
by James Aldridge

“The Turf Club swarmed with officers newly arrived from England, and a dozen open-air cinemas were showing every night in the hot, brightly lit city…We had French wines, grapes, melons, steaks, cigarettes, beer, whisky, and abundance of all things that belonged to rich, idle peace. Officers were taking modern flats in Gezira’s big buildings looking out over the golf course and the Nile. Polo continued with the same extraordinary frenzy in the roasting afternoon heat. No one worked from one till five-thirty or six, and even then work trickled through the comfortable offices borne along in a tide of gossip and Turkish coffee and pungent cigarettes…Madame Badia’s girls writhed in the belly dance at her cabaret near the Pont des Anglais.”

History was laughing at itself, and once more Clot Bey’s brothels filled to overflowing with British Tommies. Once again, Shepheard’s and the Continental were jammed with staff officers with suede boots, fly whisks and swagger sticks. Once again the nightshirted street Egyptian began to invent a thousand new ways of getting a few piasters out of the pockets of these red-faced soldiers. But as it was before, so it was again – the street Arab got the pickings, and the European and Levantine speculators and black marketers and the rich Egyptians and the British as well made the fortunes. But Cairo blossomed. British soldiers seeing sun and desert and clean air for the first time in their lives looked hungrily at the beautiful European girls who swished their pretty legs in the streets and on the trams and in the cafes. Many of these soldiers had come from appalling conditions in the black and grimy back streets of British cities not yet recovered from the depression. Many of them had never seen before what they now enjoyed every day in Cairo, and Cairo’s Europeans were generous with friendship and help. But it was not long before the relationship between the British soldiers and officers and the European girls in Cairo became an intricate and complicated entanglement which very few escaped, and many good British marriages foundered in the those soft Cairo evenings when love rushed through the city on the wings of an exotic escape.

Cairo filled steadily with soldiers other than Englishmen, Scotchmen, Welshmen and Irishmen. This time the Egyptian authorities asked that the Australians should be sent somewhere else, so they were sent to Palestine instead, but the Free French arrived and so eventually did Greeks, Czechs, Poles, Danes, Slavs, New Zealanders, Cypriots, Maltese, Palestinians, South Africans, Rhodesians, Americans and Indians. The British had two headquarters in Cairo: British Troops in Egypt (BTE), which was set up in the Semiramis Hotel on the Nile, and General Headquarters Middle East, which was given a large block of commandeered flats surrounded by barbed wire in Garden City. BTE was really part of the old British forces still occupying Egypt, mainly in the canal zone, but GHQ (ME) was the headquarters of the army that was facing the Italians and would pursue them into Libya. Of all the generals who fought in Egypt during the war, only Wavell (the first) and Montgomery (the last) always knew what was going on in the desert. Nonetheless Wavell’s staff officers were among the worst in their attachment to Cairo.

The sight of these thousands of officers playing their games in Cairo and living like petty princes in the clubs and around the swimming pools disturbed the British soldier in the second war far more that it had in the first one. But in fact the situation never really changed at all until Montgomery took the Eighth Army clean out of Egypt to chase Rommel across North Africa. There were, of course, brilliant and dedicated officers and generals in the desert as well as incompetent idiots, but for most of the war Cairo was occupied by an old-boy network that kept their firm grip on it to the very end.

All the local Europeans enjoyed the British presence because they benefited from it, excepting perhaps the Italians, who were interned whether they were for or against Mussolini. Egypt was technically not at war with the Axis until 1945, but she broke off diplomatic relations with Germany and Italy at the outbreak of the war. The Italians were therefore interned by the Egyptians, not by the British, because they were on Egyptian soil. But the Egyptians were not anti-Italian, so the internment regime was mild and the British didn’t object to it. A fair number of local Italians were Fascists, but they made no serious attempt to help Mussolini.

Between August 1942 when Montgomery took over the Eighth Army and October-November 1942 when he won the decisive battle at El-Alamein, Cairo was almost a serious military city. But after El-Alamein, when the war left Egypt and disappeared like a setting European sun over the western horizons, the city lost almost all the fantasy and glamour which those balmy years of occupation had brought it.

ElAlameincampaignmap1942-326KmNorthwestofCairo.gif


(A little history)
WWII Excerpts from "Cairo, Biography of a City"
by James Aldridge

The real enemy agents in Cairo during the war were German, and the British secret police were very efficient in catching them. In I Spied Spies Major A.W. Sansom, who was in charge of one section of the British counterespionage security police in Cairo during the war, tells story after story of how clever the British were, almost always using – and developing as their best agents – prostitutes and petty criminals and people they deliberately got involved. Sansom’s account of Cairo in the war is one of the seamiest and dirtiest ever told, but it is also one of the most honest and informed, and it reveals a great deal about British methods in keeping Cairo safe for the British presence.

It was Sansom, with the aid of a Jewish cabaret dancer, who unearthed a coven of German spies who came to Cairo loaded with English money and a radio transmitter and set themselves up in fabulous luxury in a houseboat on the Nile. But Cairo got the better of them. They were so delighted to be in this succulent old city with a fortune in their pockets and girls in their beds that they didn’t bother too much with their espionage, and it was comparatively easy for Sansom to catch them in a dramatic raid, though not before he had gone through all the weird and shady business of plots in low cafes and tip-offs and the usual double-faced deceptions.

NOTE;
The next photo shows Dr K. Barrada's Venereal Clinic in Cairo.
I suspect he was a busy fellow in those days.

CairoDSC01979.jpg


What was most significant about this raid however was that it led to the capture of a young Egyptian officer named Anwar el Sadat. The captured German spies would not talk, so Winston Churchill, who happened to be in Cairo, personally questioned them and offered them their lives if they would reveal all their contacts in Egypt. The Germans betrayed one of the Egyptians they knew – Sadat. He was arrested, cashiered from the Egyptian army, and imprisoned. But what the British police did not know then was that he was one of a group of young officers who had just formed the Revolutionary Committee, which would eventually seize power in Egypt.

In fact the British knew little or nothing at all about this committee of young officers right throughout its existence, and they were never able to really penetrate it. The committee was set up to get rid of the British, and though it would change its plans many times before it finally took power ten years later, it did not have much chance of success until it had a better social basis than mere Machiavellian plots against a Machiavellian occupier. And ironically, it was Britain herself who helped create this new economic and social basis for her own expulsion.

David

Some other photos.

Some of the boys at a cafe in Rabat-Morocco.

Rabatcafe-Morocco.jpg


Cafe in Cairo.

TerracecafeinCairo.jpg


Tobin and crew.

Tobinandcrew.jpg


A snooze.

AsnoozeDSC02211.jpg


The cockpit of KN 751 Liberator that is in the museum in England.

CockpitofKN751B-24thatwenttoIndiainJune1945.jpg
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom