U.S. Special Forces Testing in NOW - Badlands Munitions SHELL SHOCK
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In general the higher the velocity the better - but 223 bore is much smaller so barrel will burn faster, like 22-250.
The case can handle it, but what is the pressure curve and also the effect on bolt velocity gas system and barrel wear, down to the life expectency of various springs and small pins ? There is no data on the durability and reliability of the rifle, - so at this point people are beta-testing the ammo using their own firearms.
In general, shoving something faster into something that is designed for something slower is not as straight forwards.
The case can handle it, but what is the pressure curve and also the effect on bolt velocity gas system and barrel wear, down to the life expectency of various springs and small pins ? There is no data on the durability and reliability of the rifle, - so at this point people are beta-testing the ammo using their own firearms.
In general, shoving something faster into something that is designed for something slower is not as straight forwards.
DaveMachine
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Maybe someone into metallurgy or buying metals/commodities can comment - but in terms or supplying a finished product in bulk to mil/sf/le/etc - what sort of constraints exist trying to supply the raw materials to make these type of cases compared to regular brass?
Badlands is claiming the pressure is the same as regular 556, im not sure how that is possible, they claim its something to do with stronger, thinner walled casings with more powder.
there is usually no such thing as a free lunch but if they truly are getting standard 556 pressures with increased performance with no accelerated wear on the bolt and gas system (i could understand and accept accelerated wear on the bore with increased velocities) then this is really cool.
Maybe the powder mix has a different burn rate and therefore pressure curve in an increased case volume - note long barrel has way higher velocity increase. vs in the 10" gun it does't add much.
Maybe it holds more powder with a slower burn rate for a pressure peak developed later, so the peak of the pressure develops post gas port to reduce the effect on unlocking time and bolt velocity? I dunno just a guess a way something like this could be tweaked.
Note that Giessele came up with "peak alloy" earlier - so this is definitely not some secret science and the theory has been known.
I wouldn't be surprised a bit if people took apart the SIG 6.8 and had done some deep dives.....
Some of that increased MV probably comes from the heat exchange properties of the SS case itself. Brass transmits a lot of heat to the gun, SS not as much so there is more retained energy pushing the bullet. You see the same phenomenon with polymer casings.
It is very difficult to design a SS casing that you can seamlessly switch into a gas gun designed for brass and not have increased wear on the bolt. SS doesn't seal the chamber nearly as well as brass does and that puts a lot of strain on the locking lugs.
Its an interesting technology but to apply it to the obsolete 5.56 NATO is a waste of money. This is better applied to a brand new gun and a cartridge that can take advantage of the added pressure. Also, I am pretty sure you can do this in a one-piece casing, no need to complicate things with a two-piece construction.
I believe it either stated on the site or in the video that the decrease in casing wall from using a stronger material allowed for an increased powder load for the same grain of bullet, which allowed the bullet to travel farther then with the brass case before transitioning to unstable sub-sonic speeds. I suspect the firearm may have more kick, but not so much as to make wear untenable. Time will tell.
The real question is, does armour piercing variants of the round have the ability to cut through near-peer body armour at enough distance to negate the need for Sig .277 Fury? It would be cheaper to provide replacement bolts and barrels if they indeed wear faster then providing every one with Sig Spear Heavies, and you would have the advantage of carrying much more ammo for suppression. The Spear Heavy could still be useful as a DMR, of course, but there has been some question in the gun-tuber community over whether returning to the smaller ammo numbers and heaviness of a full battle rifle was worth the increased ammo count and lightness of smaller frame ARs. Again, time will tell.
The real question is, does armour piercing variants of the round have the ability to cut through near-peer body armour at enough distance to negate the need for Sig .277 Fury? It would be cheaper to provide replacement bolts and barrels if they indeed wear faster then providing every one with Sig Spear Heavies, and you would have the advantage of carrying much more ammo for suppression. The Spear Heavy could still be useful as a DMR, of course, but there has been some question in the gun-tuber community over whether returning to the smaller ammo numbers and heaviness of a full battle rifle was worth the increased ammo count and lightness of smaller frame ARs. Again, time will tell.
If we still envision future warfare involving using humans to take trenches and buildings from other humans , 100 rounds of 6.8 and a 10lb carbine for everyone is questionable IMHO. 5.56 was developed for that kind of warfare.
It really depends on what the us army is envisioning how they are going to fight in the next war. If drones and AI powered robots are in abundance, human soldiers can sit back and only deal with threats from a stand off distance. To do that it also means a lot of surveillance from drones to accurately locate targets even down to squad level. The US ARMY has been pushing drones down to squad level - they even added a squad “ IT “ guy in the last restructuring I read about a year or two ago
It really depends on what the us army is envisioning how they are going to fight in the next war. If drones and AI powered robots are in abundance, human soldiers can sit back and only deal with threats from a stand off distance. To do that it also means a lot of surveillance from drones to accurately locate targets even down to squad level. The US ARMY has been pushing drones down to squad level - they even added a squad “ IT “ guy in the last restructuring I read about a year or two ago
Sourcing nickel would be an issue for the U.S. domestically.
Nickel mining in North America: it’s a US national security issue
https://theoregongroup.com/commodit...rth-america-its-a-us-national-security-issue/
I only lasted a minute or so watching that guy in the vid but I have buddies stateside that have run this stuff in 5.56 for a few years now. They've also tested 7.62x51 and 6.5 Creed. Basically gives you 26" barrel speeds in a 20" (for 5.56) if I recall correctly. Was talking to a buddy about this a month or so ago, he said he was getting 2880fps with 77gr ammo in a 20" gas gun and 2810 out of a 20" .308 (didn't specify which bullet). I'll ask tomorrow if he's encountered premature wear but he never mentioned it when we've spoken about that ammo in the past so I imagine it's not a huge issue.
Big Bad
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My information as obtained while growing up a century ago has it that brass is used in cases because it is soft and therefore nonabrasive and will not cause wear in the chamber while being loaded and extracted. Aluminum cases might seem like a good idea but when oxidized, which happens almost instantly, the outside of an AL case becomes is incredibly hard and will scratch almost anything. A stainless case may seem well but will or won't it also prove to be too hard on the chamber? Also, what about barrel twist? The original M16s had a low rate of twist which caused tumbling and made the rounds a lot more lethal.
