x2 on that
Uliimate All-Around Hunting Rifle
- Thread starter zakattack
- Start date
x2 on that
Wrong Way
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I never slagged the 7mm mag, I slagged a certain demographic of magnum shooters. Try and keep up junior, it's tiring having to repeat everything in a simpler way so you can grasp it.
Any magnum is a terrible choice for a novice hunter. Expensive, loud, high recoil, and 99% of hunters NEVER use magnums at the ranges where they actually offer any advantage whatsoever....and 99.999% of newbies shouldn't shoot at those ranges anyway.
Heres where you get to tell me how a 7mm mag actually is superior to the 7/08 at 100 yards.....
handofzeus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Trout Creekish Ontario.
FN 98 in 30-06. Cheap, accurate, quality, indestructable.
O.P. said everything up to and including moose, gun shots a dinner bell for a grizz, In B.C. they live side by side.It will be an issue weather you want it or not. 300 Winmag /30-06/.308 -I personaly feel very comfortable with my .308 in grizz country ,some wouldn't .
The magnum demographic of people?
My opinion is that the OP had a good pick from the start. The 7mm RM is one of the smaller mag's out there, and should be good from coyotes to moose. And yes, a 7-08 will kill a coyote just as well ay 100 yards as a 7mmRM, will it kill an elk as well at 450 yards? Or am I compromising for being a lousey shooter by saying that.
BTW, welcome to the forum, you will find lots of conflicting opinions here, especially to the anti-magnum and large caliber perspectives.
Some folks like to pull the un-ethical shot card, or the over compensating card alot here or over analyze everything you say, and then there is some supportive and helpful perspectives too, so welcome aboard!
My opinion is that the OP had a good pick from the start. The 7mm RM is one of the smaller mag's out there, and should be good from coyotes to moose. And yes, a 7-08 will kill a coyote just as well ay 100 yards as a 7mmRM, will it kill an elk as well at 450 yards? Or am I compromising for being a lousey shooter by saying that.
BTW, welcome to the forum, you will find lots of conflicting opinions here, especially to the anti-magnum and large caliber perspectives.
Some folks like to pull the un-ethical shot card, or the over compensating card alot here or over analyze everything you say, and then there is some supportive and helpful perspectives too, so welcome aboard!
If cost effectiveness is an issue, then stay away from magnums. As others have already stated, magnums are not ideal for a beginner to learn on. IMO neither is a 30.06, while it won't have the same recoil as a magnum it will be close. Now if you are looking for an accurate rifle that is dependable, and loaded with features, why not consider a Mossberg 4x4? It's available in a variety of calibers and has a 24" fluted barrel w/removable muzzle break, fully floated barrel, vented forestock, removable magazine, LBA adjustable trigger, and its also finished in marinecoat(mossberg's s/s). For cost effectiveness it's pretty hard to beat! They usually retail for around $550. Add a Bushnell Elite 3200, and your good to go! By the way, a good old .270
Is also a good all around cartridge. Do plenty of research, and make sure whatever you chose fits you. Good luck!
Is also a good all around cartridge. Do plenty of research, and make sure whatever you chose fits you. Good luck!
RememberTheSomme
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nova Scotia
You are trying to cover too much with one rifle, period.
You want a gopher gun? Start at MOA(minute of angle) out of the box or less in a .204Ruger. .223Rem or .22-250Rem etc etc, and then for Moose Season, you can go with any appropriate bullet in a 7mm-08Rem, .270Win, .280Rem, .308Win, .30-06Spfd, 7mmRemMag or .300WM/WSM.
To meet the requirements of a Varmint rifle in regards to Minute of Angle or less accuracy, and won't strike more than 3" over your line or sight or 3" low, out to 300 yards is a tall requirement. To meet the requirements of a suitable Moose rifle, it needs to develop the energies required to drive heavy for caliber bullets deep and expand well in a moose.
You see you really need two rifles here or a Jack of all trades/Master of none compromise, which I know you seekth, but will do neither of the two jobs perfectly. So here are four options that will do both, but with limitations to the basic criteria of a true Varmint and a true Moose rifle: You choose the platform and scope based on your budget, there have been great combos listed already..............
260Remington. Cost per round acceptable in varmint use, minimum acceptable trajectory to make a baseline pure varmint round combo cartridge, and bare requirements for energies and bullet weights for a baseline Moose rifle. Out of box accuracy for small targets close to Varmint requirements
7mm-08Remington. Costs per round is acceptable, especially for Moose, and for light to moderate Varmint use. Recoil is acceptable, and barrel life is good in the varmint role. But you will have to deal with the steeper trajectories during long range shooting on a very small animal and range error estimations. Windage however, will will be more acceptable. Good for Moose out to 200 yards.
.257 WeatherbyMagnum
. Cost per round is debilitating, even to a handloader. Will shoot as flat as a pure varmint rifle with lighter bullets. Windage drift similar to a pure varmint rifle. Will develop excessive muzzle blast, recoil, and barrel life will be very short in warm weather extended firing on gophers. Develops good energy and penetrating power with heaviest bullets in a moose. Good for Moose 200yds+
.308Winchester. Cost per round excellent with humpteen bullet weight and type choices for field and practise use lowest cost per round in factory ammo. Recoil acceptable to most, but starting to get there in a varmint rifle. Barrel life good, but again the trajectory is going to pose a problem on animals standing only 1 foot tall or less at distances out to 300 yds plus. Wind drift will be good, similar to the 7mm-08, but starting to widen on small target now. Good for Moose out to 200 yards.
So if I had to pick one caliber for Gopher and Moose in the purest sense trying to meet both's criteria well and firing one shot at each target per year, I'd take the .257WeatherbyMagnum.
But of course you are not going to buy the Weatherby for gophers, it's perfect niche is plains shooting on medium size game, so hence your dilemma of trying to do too much with too little options.
Buy two rifles, and save your self the heartache of trying to do so different a role with a one caliber compromise, or pick from the 260/7mm-08/.308 based on each virtue listed. You will enjoy both alot better.
Compromises in firearms are great in theory, and they work well in military or tactical applications where the threat or the environment can change by the second, but a game hunter usually chooses his targets and engagement distances on his terms, so the job specific rifle is always a much better deal for him.
Man I must be bored.................
You want a gopher gun? Start at MOA(minute of angle) out of the box or less in a .204Ruger. .223Rem or .22-250Rem etc etc, and then for Moose Season, you can go with any appropriate bullet in a 7mm-08Rem, .270Win, .280Rem, .308Win, .30-06Spfd, 7mmRemMag or .300WM/WSM.
To meet the requirements of a Varmint rifle in regards to Minute of Angle or less accuracy, and won't strike more than 3" over your line or sight or 3" low, out to 300 yards is a tall requirement. To meet the requirements of a suitable Moose rifle, it needs to develop the energies required to drive heavy for caliber bullets deep and expand well in a moose.
You see you really need two rifles here or a Jack of all trades/Master of none compromise, which I know you seekth, but will do neither of the two jobs perfectly. So here are four options that will do both, but with limitations to the basic criteria of a true Varmint and a true Moose rifle: You choose the platform and scope based on your budget, there have been great combos listed already..............
260Remington. Cost per round acceptable in varmint use, minimum acceptable trajectory to make a baseline pure varmint round combo cartridge, and bare requirements for energies and bullet weights for a baseline Moose rifle. Out of box accuracy for small targets close to Varmint requirements
7mm-08Remington. Costs per round is acceptable, especially for Moose, and for light to moderate Varmint use. Recoil is acceptable, and barrel life is good in the varmint role. But you will have to deal with the steeper trajectories during long range shooting on a very small animal and range error estimations. Windage however, will will be more acceptable. Good for Moose out to 200 yards.
.257 WeatherbyMagnum
. Cost per round is debilitating, even to a handloader. Will shoot as flat as a pure varmint rifle with lighter bullets. Windage drift similar to a pure varmint rifle. Will develop excessive muzzle blast, recoil, and barrel life will be very short in warm weather extended firing on gophers. Develops good energy and penetrating power with heaviest bullets in a moose. Good for Moose 200yds+.308Winchester. Cost per round excellent with humpteen bullet weight and type choices for field and practise use lowest cost per round in factory ammo. Recoil acceptable to most, but starting to get there in a varmint rifle. Barrel life good, but again the trajectory is going to pose a problem on animals standing only 1 foot tall or less at distances out to 300 yds plus. Wind drift will be good, similar to the 7mm-08, but starting to widen on small target now. Good for Moose out to 200 yards.
So if I had to pick one caliber for Gopher and Moose in the purest sense trying to meet both's criteria well and firing one shot at each target per year, I'd take the .257WeatherbyMagnum.
But of course you are not going to buy the Weatherby for gophers, it's perfect niche is plains shooting on medium size game, so hence your dilemma of trying to do too much with too little options.
Buy two rifles, and save your self the heartache of trying to do so different a role with a one caliber compromise, or pick from the 260/7mm-08/.308 based on each virtue listed. You will enjoy both alot better.
Compromises in firearms are great in theory, and they work well in military or tactical applications where the threat or the environment can change by the second, but a game hunter usually chooses his targets and engagement distances on his terms, so the job specific rifle is always a much better deal for him.
Man I must be bored.................
Winchester 70 Featherweight or Extreme Weather SS in .270 Win with Burris Extreme picatinny mounts, Warne rings and an FX-II 6x36 mm Leupold. Talley ring mounts or Leupold dual dovetails also work.
Coyotes through moose and elk. 130 grain bullets don't kick as hard either.
www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross-seyfried-busting-the-magnum-myth/
http://montanaelkhunting.########.ca/2009/12/270-winchester-for-elk-hunting.html
Coyotes through moose and elk. 130 grain bullets don't kick as hard either.
www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross-seyfried-busting-the-magnum-myth/
http://montanaelkhunting.########.ca/2009/12/270-winchester-for-elk-hunting.html
Rory McCanuck
CGN Regular
- Location
- Middle of Manitoba
I would worry less about the caliber, and more about the gun that is comfortable.
Most any chambering that is readily available will do what you want.
Inexpensive ammunition allows you to practice more.
Practice is good.
A 30-30 lever gun that gets shot every week is much more effective than a 35 OuchBang Magnum you can't afford and are scared to shoot.
Reloading makes ammunition less expensive, and you can tailor it to your exact needs.
A bolt action 30-06 with a decent scope is probably the Swiss army knife of guns.
It will do most things well; others may do a specific job better, but may not work at the other end of the spectrum.
It might not be the best first rifle (I think the recoil might be a bit much to start with) but your
Tikka in 7mm Mag would be a heck of a nice gun to carry all day and shoot a few times a year.
Most any chambering that is readily available will do what you want.
Inexpensive ammunition allows you to practice more.
Practice is good.
A 30-30 lever gun that gets shot every week is much more effective than a 35 OuchBang Magnum you can't afford and are scared to shoot.
Reloading makes ammunition less expensive, and you can tailor it to your exact needs.
A bolt action 30-06 with a decent scope is probably the Swiss army knife of guns.
It will do most things well; others may do a specific job better, but may not work at the other end of the spectrum.
It might not be the best first rifle (I think the recoil might be a bit much to start with) but your
Tikka in 7mm Mag would be a heck of a nice gun to carry all day and shoot a few times a year.
When a good friend of mine was in the same situation last year, I told him that I'd choose a Winchester Extreme M70 in 7-08. it's an excellent rifle with a pretty good synthetic stock for a decent price. It's a far better rifle than any T3.
Although cartridge choice is not that important for an "all around" rifle (just get one of the many "all around" cartridges like 7-08, 270, 308, 30-06, 7RM, 300Whatever or anything in between these) I told him to get a 7-08 because he wanted to shoot lots and learn to be a goo marksman, and didn't want to get punished by recoil. A couple of weeks ago he shot his first moose with it and it smashed through the shoulder of the moose at 250 yards. You don't need much more than that.
Another buddy just got the same rifle in 300WM. It's also a very nice rifle.
My choice is M70 Extreme in any all around cartridge that suits you fancy. Top it with a good scope and go hunting.
Although cartridge choice is not that important for an "all around" rifle (just get one of the many "all around" cartridges like 7-08, 270, 308, 30-06, 7RM, 300Whatever or anything in between these) I told him to get a 7-08 because he wanted to shoot lots and learn to be a goo marksman, and didn't want to get punished by recoil. A couple of weeks ago he shot his first moose with it and it smashed through the shoulder of the moose at 250 yards. You don't need much more than that.
Another buddy just got the same rifle in 300WM. It's also a very nice rifle.
My choice is M70 Extreme in any all around cartridge that suits you fancy. Top it with a good scope and go hunting.
Now you know if you want a rifle for everything you need one of these http://www.barrett.net/firearms/model99
Accurate out to 1000 yards and will stop any ground squirrel in his tracks. You do realize them critters are getting tougher all the time. Why they tell me that 30 caliber bullets just bounce off moose and elk.
Seriously any 7-08 or 308 will do the job you want. Far as rifle are concerned if you are not concerned about looks the Savage Axis is cheap in price and works as well as anything on the market. Buy what you feel fits you best and have fun.
Accurate out to 1000 yards and will stop any ground squirrel in his tracks. You do realize them critters are getting tougher all the time. Why they tell me that 30 caliber bullets just bounce off moose and elk.
Seriously any 7-08 or 308 will do the job you want. Far as rifle are concerned if you are not concerned about looks the Savage Axis is cheap in price and works as well as anything on the market. Buy what you feel fits you best and have fun.
I happen to know a few local hunters who have used nothing but 30/30 rifles on everything but migratory birds and arctic critters in Canada from one coast to another and they seem to have no problem maxing out their tags each season for the past 30 + years. My next choice would be the .308 or 30.06 based on ammo availability.
Also Iron sights as a back up as I know first hand how fragile and finicky scopes can be and given the range most game is taken anyway.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
If you like the T3 then get one, simple as that.
For cartridge choice, for an all-around-mice-to-moose cartridge that you plan on using for many years, you just cannot beat the 30-06, period.
Spending a little extra to get set up to handload the 30-06 and you'll really get the maximum out of this cartridge. If you have a little more time on your hands and a little money, getting into casting your own bullets will also let you shoot on the cheap, and have some more fun while you are at it.
A couple of people rightly commented that a simple 30-30 that gets carried and shot regularly is a "better" rifle than a fancy whizz-bang-magnum that sees two range trips per year. Been there, done that, and I am finding more and more that fancy, specialized firearms really are much more toys than workhorses. Remember this if you are on a limited budget.
For cartridge choice, for an all-around-mice-to-moose cartridge that you plan on using for many years, you just cannot beat the 30-06, period.
Spending a little extra to get set up to handload the 30-06 and you'll really get the maximum out of this cartridge. If you have a little more time on your hands and a little money, getting into casting your own bullets will also let you shoot on the cheap, and have some more fun while you are at it.
A couple of people rightly commented that a simple 30-30 that gets carried and shot regularly is a "better" rifle than a fancy whizz-bang-magnum that sees two range trips per year. Been there, done that, and I am finding more and more that fancy, specialized firearms really are much more toys than workhorses. Remember this if you are on a limited budget.
