Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Ultimatium Deadline Action - Reviews, thoughts etc?
- Thread starter Fore300
- Start date
It's very fussy, as in :
If I open up the lips a tad too much, if I slam the mag in hard (which may happen on the field), I get rounds ejecting from lips.
Also when opened up too much, last rounds are already pointing up, and bolt can pass over sometimes without catching round.
If I close them up a bit too tight, they will hit the feedramp and feed.
I can now get them to all feed, and smooth to some extent too, but after measuring concentricity before and after feeding, hitting that ramp has a negative impact on runout.
My reload process is really meticulous and focused around 0 thou runout ammo, which I have succeeded, I feel like I am scrapping my efforts by having ammo come back out with runout after feeding.
And, the margin between too open and too close is very tight, less than 10 thou, go 5 thou one way it behaves a way, go 5 thou the other way it behaves another way.
If I should drop mags or handle them rough, I may be in for surprises on the field.
I personally got no beef with ultimatum or their product,
It's my fault for diving in too quick, and thinking I was purchasing a drop in action, when in reality I purchased a gunsmith required action, when in combination with my caliber, mags and chassis at least.
I am opening them up in a parallel way, as in i got flat and wide smooth pliers (larger than the whole feedlip) that i use.
Also checked MPAs youtube video on mag tuning, and made myself a tool like them with a small block of aluminium.
Also checked MPAs youtube video on mag tuning, and made myself a tool like them with a small block of aluminium.
Try just flaring the front end.
Primal rights has a video about tuning feed lips to feed the 6mmBR and 6Dasher cartridges.
In my experience you want to keep the back of the lips more or less the same as factory and then open up the front end of the feed lips. This will give the cartridges an upwards orientation which should help in feeding. A smooth curve is best if you can achieve it.
It is a pain, but I got 2 300WM magazines to feed 6.5X55 like butter- those are not even in the ballpark in terms of similarities. I am sure you can get this with some finagling.
Primal rights has a video about tuning feed lips to feed the 6mmBR and 6Dasher cartridges.
In my experience you want to keep the back of the lips more or less the same as factory and then open up the front end of the feed lips. This will give the cartridges an upwards orientation which should help in feeding. A smooth curve is best if you can achieve it.
It is a pain, but I got 2 300WM magazines to feed 6.5X55 like butter- those are not even in the ballpark in terms of similarities. I am sure you can get this with some finagling.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
setting up a mag is universal regardless of the action, chassis/stock or metal mag.... maintenance of mag lips is universal cause mags get dropped and bumped and feed lips get bent.
As I mentioned several posts back, you typically only open the front 1/2 to 1" of the lips... as we discussed in that post with the picture of the feedramp, the area that had the case brass smear is really where you are concentrating on NOT the full length of the feed lips.
However, it sounds like opening the rear a bit was what was necessary for full mag feeding but likely have gone a bit too far. By opening and closing each end of the feed lips, you control the case retention AND the presentation of the bullet to the chamber. The rear portion controls case retention.... the front controls the angle of the bullet tip and when the cartridge is released.... which in turn controls the angle the cartridge gets up the feed ramp.
A bit tighter in the rear... a bit flared at the front... and the mag will work well for you.
Consider using a pair of pliers... 1/2" wide... so you can apply pressure locally and not the full length of the lips at once.
Jerry
I did copy paste all your replies and PMs in a notebook folder Jerry, in the event I gain a little patience and get at it again.
Right now being strong season at work, and just want to shoot without too much fuss, I fear it has put me in a position that my patience with this project is unusually thin.
It's my fault, I should of researched, I presumed I was getting into a tune free/gunsmith free project, and got more than what I expected.
Right now being strong season at work, and just want to shoot without too much fuss, I fear it has put me in a position that my patience with this project is unusually thin.
It's my fault, I should of researched, I presumed I was getting into a tune free/gunsmith free project, and got more than what I expected.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
If you want me to set it up for you, ship it back to me and I will get it done and back to you.
Easy problem to fix...
Jerry
Easy problem to fix...
Jerry
Definitely would be frustrating. Have you contacted Ultimatum at all to see if they have any suggestions or best approaches. I am sure many people would like to know what the issue may be and how options to correct it if it is happening to them as well. Also Jerry seems very willing to help make sure it is right for you and he seems to have built a few of these from what I have seen.
Sorry to hear about the negative experience to this point.
Sorry to hear about the negative experience to this point.
Fairly mixed reviews on the Ultimatum state side:
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/deadline-action-questions.6896132/#post-7224112
http://forum.snipershide.com/threads/deadline-action-questions.6896132/#post-7224112
Thanks for the offer Jerry, may be a project for next year just reassembled my setup as a savage.
So i don’t miss the remainder of the season, fall is the best time to shoot lots.
Btw i did get a reply from ultimatum, these actions are meant for AW mags.
The mag just sits so low.
I did obtain a nice feed tonight, couldn’t almost get better for all 10 rounds.
Then i did on purpose to handle mags rough and had some ammo pop out.
As soon as id close a bit id get some feedramp.
Did it like you said, the middle and rear equal, the feont opened a bit.
Helped a bunch, but still, i want my mags to be able to endure severe duty.
Not that i compete or anything, but i want all my firearms and accessories are able to handle a rough ride.
So i don’t miss the remainder of the season, fall is the best time to shoot lots.
Btw i did get a reply from ultimatum, these actions are meant for AW mags.
The mag just sits so low.
I did obtain a nice feed tonight, couldn’t almost get better for all 10 rounds.
Then i did on purpose to handle mags rough and had some ammo pop out.
As soon as id close a bit id get some feedramp.
Did it like you said, the middle and rear equal, the feont opened a bit.
Helped a bunch, but still, i want my mags to be able to endure severe duty.
Not that i compete or anything, but i want all my firearms and accessories are able to handle a rough ride.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Without seeing the set up and the orientation of all the bits, really not much more I can offer for help. The Deadline will work just fine with those MDT mags... or adjusted for AW mags.
They are different set ups so you have to be prepared to modify the mag latch accordingly... this is certainly not plug and play.
Anyways, the offer is open... if the mag is wonky, let's replace it... if the action is not in the chassis properly, let's fix that....
There are no shortage of shooters using these MDT mags and so far, haven't heard any complaints. My experience with them has been positive so I don't expect them to fall apart...
Actually, I don't need that IBI 308 barrel.. just the action, middle chassis section and the mag in question. Easy enough to put one of my barrels in its place and run your dummy rds through the set up and see what is wrong.
Will need 10 to 12 dummy rds so I can test what you are seeing.
Easy...
Jerry
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Some more feedback from shooter I put together a Deadline ESS McGowen set up in 6.5 Creedmoor... 330yds, Lapua 139gr Scenar, H4350.... time to see about tuning for that low shot ;-)
And a 5 shot group at 100m.
MPOD is really helping with consistency vs a Harris.
On another note, I loaded up some of the 260AI into the AI AW mag and tried to feed it... didn't work. The mag is very specific in the case taper it will work with and hangs up with the straight body improved cases. Something to consider if wanting to run with AW mags.
Jerry
Attachments
I was keeping quite a bit to myself since I had not researched before purchasing.
Now that I have researched, their website claims AICS and AW magazine compatible.
They shouldn't make that claim necessarily.
Just purchased some AICS mags with binder plate for my Savage, and it feeds great in it.
Definitely not compatible with Ultimatum.
Would be fun if there was a factory mag that would work in these, or at least if it was disclosed somewhere.
I talked to my local smith, he had finished a defiance build, no mag tuning whatsoever required.
But looking at my receiver, confirmed that a 3 lug bolt forces the mag to sit lower and extensive mag tuning is required.
I now know this, but to the new buyer it's not something mentioned no where.
Yes other custom actions can use mag tuning, but nothing as extensive as a 3 lug bolt action.
Ultimatum should chime in this thread, at least to confirm what should work or not, not for me, but for potential new buyers.
Keeping this stale is maybe not the best course of action.
Now that I have researched, their website claims AICS and AW magazine compatible.
They shouldn't make that claim necessarily.
Just purchased some AICS mags with binder plate for my Savage, and it feeds great in it.
Definitely not compatible with Ultimatum.
Would be fun if there was a factory mag that would work in these, or at least if it was disclosed somewhere.
I talked to my local smith, he had finished a defiance build, no mag tuning whatsoever required.
But looking at my receiver, confirmed that a 3 lug bolt forces the mag to sit lower and extensive mag tuning is required.
I now know this, but to the new buyer it's not something mentioned no where.
Yes other custom actions can use mag tuning, but nothing as extensive as a 3 lug bolt action.
Ultimatum should chime in this thread, at least to confirm what should work or not, not for me, but for potential new buyers.
Keeping this stale is maybe not the best course of action.
It is unfortunate that you had a tough go with this action but I know a couple folks running them without any issues (running them so well they placed in the SAPRL comps this year and you can't really be screwing around with feeding in them). The 8541 Tac guy also seems to like his but I would doubt he paid for it either.
There are also a few 3 lugs out of the states that have no problems with feeding (Curtis Custom, GAP Tempest and that new ARC Nucleus) so it is not a 3 lug issue necessarily. Cadex even has that quad lug (R7 I think) that feeds out of AICS mags.
After getting the little 6BR based cartridges to feed and as mentioned before 6.5X55 our of a 300WM magazine it is possible to feed almost anything if you spend the time on it. I would think that maybe it has to do with the magazine catch being a bit out of place or something along those lines.
Maybe there is someone in Quebec that could help out?
Edited to add: Not surprised the AW mags don't play nice with Ackley cartridges - adjust the feed lips on AW mags would be ill advised I think.
There are also a few 3 lugs out of the states that have no problems with feeding (Curtis Custom, GAP Tempest and that new ARC Nucleus) so it is not a 3 lug issue necessarily. Cadex even has that quad lug (R7 I think) that feeds out of AICS mags.
After getting the little 6BR based cartridges to feed and as mentioned before 6.5X55 our of a 300WM magazine it is possible to feed almost anything if you spend the time on it. I would think that maybe it has to do with the magazine catch being a bit out of place or something along those lines.
Maybe there is someone in Quebec that could help out?
Edited to add: Not surprised the AW mags don't play nice with Ackley cartridges - adjust the feed lips on AW mags would be ill advised I think.
Myself am not up for it, this action is not for me.
I know a local gun smith that builds rifles 20 mins from my house, but decided to go another direction.
My post was more intended for potential new owners,
To keep in mind, that tuning is required around the magazine.
Mag definitely sits very low with this action, so something has got to be done to work.
For someone with not the greatest income as myself,
It takes sone honesty with myself to determine something is not for me,
And to take the financial hit of doing such mistakes also.
UltimatumD
Expired Business Member
Hey MartyK2500
We are sorry that this is not working out for you. To be fair we have zero complaints from any of our customers with AICS mags. We have run, and continue to run AICS, Accurate, MDT, Magpul and AI AW mags. The .050-.060" mag latch trim (for NON-deadline inletted) stocks/chassis' is documented in our website. This is due to the fat bolt body design, which in turn requires a larger diameter receiver than Rem700.
We do have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and we understand there was a delay in getting your build completed in 30 days. Nonetheless if you ship it back, we will refund you including shipping no problem.
The Ultimatum Team
We are sorry that this is not working out for you. To be fair we have zero complaints from any of our customers with AICS mags. We have run, and continue to run AICS, Accurate, MDT, Magpul and AI AW mags. The .050-.060" mag latch trim (for NON-deadline inletted) stocks/chassis' is documented in our website. This is due to the fat bolt body design, which in turn requires a larger diameter receiver than Rem700.
We do have a 100% satisfaction guarantee and we understand there was a delay in getting your build completed in 30 days. Nonetheless if you ship it back, we will refund you including shipping no problem.
The Ultimatum Team
Can’t complain about that sort of customer service at all, I’ll second what Ryan has said as well, I’ve seen these actions on the firing line in action and the guys I know running them run them well with no issues. I know you stated that you liked the idea of not having a to use a Gun smith but in this instance I think it would have been beneficial to use one. I’ve personslly made ai,aw,magpul, and mdt mags feed with all sorts of cals in both 2lug and 3lug actions. Including the br sized cases right up to the 338 lapua ai.
