Ultra-compact takedowns

Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
A real interesting thread but what a conundrum.
What the hell I'll throw in my idea of the perfect "Rambling","bear defence" ,"survival" ,"sleep better at night" rifle for my stomping grounds.
A Ranch hand in .45 Colt pushing toasty heavy for caliber hardcast handloads would be the easy way out...I even fitted a synthetic stock on mine.
Cheap like borscht...500$ off the EE.
Takes down with one screw.
Modified the goofy big-loop...it's dog-sh$t along with the stock sights.
Had to install a flip-flop recoil pad (props to Why-Not) because it thumps a fella pretty good. Follow-up shots are ridiculously fast.
Cerakoting is in the future plans and covers the weatherproof angle.

Ardent you're just being difficult! ;)

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Hey I like that! I'll post one here next week when the postman delivers it :)
 
Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
A real interesting thread but what a conundrum.
What the hell I'll throw in my idea of the perfect "Rambling","bear defence" ,"survival" ,"sleep better at night" rifle for my stomping grounds.
A Ranch hand in .45 Colt pushing toasty heavy for caliber hardcast handloads would be the easy way out...I even fitted a synthetic stock on mine.
Cheap like borscht...500$ off the EE.
Takes down with one screw.
Modified the goofy big-loop...it's dog-sh$t along with the stock sights...
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Nice! Two questions- where did you get the synthetic stock and did you cut down & weld the lever yourself or just swap it out? :)
 
josquin said:
Nice! Two questions- where did you get the synthetic stock and did you cut down & weld the lever yourself or just swap it out? :)
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Synthetic Ramline set for a Win 94. The Buttstock takes a good deal of inletting work in the tang area, the fore-end was a direct fit. The lever was cut,heated,re-shaped and then brazed. Safety replaced with a ghost ring from Steves-Gunz. 4lbs 12ozs all in. Appreciate the compliment josquin.
 
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Ardent...you said no .44mag but what are your thoughts on .454 Casull in a rifle? Very, very close to factory 45-70 loads.
If you have no aversion towards the caliber it may just give you another option...
 
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machman said:
Ardent, having read previous threads you have commented in, I can tell you are a
"Price is no object" kind of guy. You should really be thinking " What would Caramel do?" ;-)
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As an emergency tool for the intended purpose, i bought and tested my shorty Tombstone, true, were i go there is no grizzly but black bear and i could be limitrop to polar bear... I think a 12 gauge with a 7/8 of an ounce slug running 1875 fps could keep the treat away, a slug at this speed is surely more than a tickling thing, break in 2 pieces it fit in a little soft leather case that is less than 16 inch... JP.

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Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
Ardent...you said no .44mag but what are your thoughts on .454 Casull? Very, very close to factory 45-70 loads.
If you have no aversion towards the caliber it may just give you another option...
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True, I'm sure it's decent, but it's just no stopper in my eyes, and I don't mean stoppers like my fascination with African dangerous game rifles, they can be as small as a .308 and I'll explain my thinking. I believe you need to develop 2200fps or above with a high sectional density bullet, or faster with a lower sectional density one, to have proper "stunning" on game effect. I've culled with or alongside a bunch of different guns overseas, and seen the results on identical animals of a few different ideas on ballistics from .44 Mag and .243 to the .458 Magnums. It isn't science but I definitely note a difference in time on their feet once hit with 2200fps and above, the heavy pistol rounds are a lot like the old African cartridges in the black powder era that were quickly dumped for modern, higher velocity smokeless rounds. Heavy bullets, low velocities, they kill certainly, but often not quickly at least compared to actual rifles, and the trajectories are abysmal. So you end up with a close range compromise that still doesn't have the effect of the better all around rifle, which can be as small as a 7x57 or .308. For a rifle intended for stopping a large predator, I would see a pistol cartridge carbine as a severe compromise. Many will likely point out the .454 can match a 12 gauge for weight and velocity of projectile from a carbine, and fair point. It's just not for me and I don't view the 12 gauge slug as the magic medicine many do, having shot several bears with slugs including a problem bear at a handful of paces literally inside a camp with CO permission. That bear with a heart shredded to pieces still ran flat out for a good ten or fifteen seconds before balling up, covering an absurd distance, and with startling speed. I would hate to be under it waiting for the effect to take hold, and will seek rifles when possible these days despite my previous "ardent" support of the 12 gauge. Nearly all guns are good, but a real rifle is best is my thinking for saving your bacon.
 
caramel said:
As an emergency tool for the intended purpose, i bought and tested my shorty Tombstone, true, were i go there is no grizzly but black bear and i could be limitrop to polar bear... I think a 12 gauge with a 7/8 of an ounce slug running 1875 fps could keep the treat away, a slug at this speed is surely more than a tickling thing, break in 2 pieces it fit in a little soft leather case that is less than 16 inch... JP.

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Nice shooting Caramel. that modded front sight really works great.
 
In actual fact the most compact bear defense device I have ever found is a current bear tag. I believe they treat them with some sort of repellent that ensures that bears stay at least 5 miles away. Fold one up and put it in your shirt pocket - and you are good to go!!!

OTOH .. forget to buy one and you'll find them hanging around your truck chewing the tires, scratching their ass on your bumper and trying to rip the antenna off.
 
c-fbmi had a good suggestion in the Yukon rifle thread, Winchester Mod 95 take down in .405 Win. with a chopped 20" barrel, problem solved!
 
Just remember you are limited to an OAL of just over 26" and here in BC you can't legally hunt with it if the barrel is shorter than 12".

I still don't have an issue with using a single shot for defense I carried my 22" barreled T/C Contender carbine in 45-70 loaded with 430gr WFNGC's for years in grizzly country and never really felt that I needed more.

If I was going to set one ultra compact rifle up specifically for defense it would be my stainless Prohunter with a 15" - 16" bull barrel in 45-70 and I know of a guy that has his set up with an 18" 375H&H barrel.

I've been thinking about getting my 375H&H barrel shortened to 18.5" already had it shortened to 22" but figure its only $40.00 + shipping to get it done again.

Just found the link http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=241 scroll appr 2/3 way down page for the story.

I would get this Oh Schit TBOSS machined into it as well http://www.bellmtcs.com/store/index.php?cid=174&
 
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Ardent said:
Still 20", we've gone over that a few times looking to go down to even as little as just over foot long pieces / barrel, I mean ultra compact.

Had the 20" takedown 9.3x62 mentioned a couple pages back, still very large for these purposes.
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Not even a 16.5" Wild West takedown Co-Pilot would be that small.
 
What about one of the B&M Super Short magnums modified for t/d? The OAL is 36" with a 16" barrel. I don't know what the LOP is but it must be quite long as the WSSM action is short, so at most you would be 20" for the rear section, but I suspect you would easily be under 20" with a 13.5" LOP. They offer the .458, .475 and .50 version.
http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/50-B-M-Super-Short.html
 
I measured the butt section of one of my SxS's, and it's still 19" from the centre of the butt to the knuckle, with a 14 1/2" pull. So even a double rifle with 16" barrels isn't going to work unless you have a stupidly short buttstock.

The only way you're going to get under your size limit is with a collapsible (a-la AR-15) or folding stock and a removable barrel.
 
thepitchedlink said:
Yup, it was a cool gun I'll admit and I carried it the same as you as you want to....it was a fine gun but:

As mine got loaded onto commercial flights, float planes, trucks. etc, I was alway nervous that it would get lost/damaged, whatever.....it was a 2000$ gun
I didn't really like shooting it. The proper bear loads in the Guide Gun config just hurt...for me anyway. So I had a really nice gun, that tied up a bunch of $, that I didn't like shooting....
Hard to buy ammo in remote locations for it...so if you wanted to do a little shooting on the weekend, now you can't find ammo for it
I'be become skeptical of the "take down" mechanics of many custom rigs...they feel like they start to get loose as you use them more....so it made me not want to use it....what's the point of that? That's what's cool about a double, build that way from the beginning

Anyway, I carried a BLR take down in 358, that actually was a good rig...doing it again, for the $, I'd do that probably...could even go 450 Marlin if you really want the horsepower

My last 2 years fly in the Arctic, I carried a MK5 Jungle Carbine, 250$ off the EE, barrel was shortened, 10 rounds in the clip, buy reloads ANYWHERE, and a 10$ screwdriver allowed the butt to come off in 30 sec....still have that one

The other option might be a short double shotgun and see if you can get slugs to regulate....Beretta makes one I think
I was on the phone with Wild West, talking about ordering a Co-Pilot, just couldn't do the $......but it's probably the way to go if $ no object.....get the curved lever......I've never seen/handled the take down mech on one of those.....
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There you go! I like the sound of that, and hotter/heavier loads wouldn't hurt either.

Reminds me I really should get my quick-detach Lee Enfield butt design beyond the paper stage.
 
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Ardent said:
For a Canadian order imported through irunguns that knows the paperwork the barrel can be any length you desire, the 16.5" is solely to satisfy American SBR laws.
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Then that certainly seems to be the way to go. I've been to their store in Anchorage and their gear is very good quality. I have some of their stuff on my 1895GS and it has been great. I think there are better ghost ring sights than theirs but their GRS is tough being protected by the "wings" around the peep.
 
I've been thinking about getting my 375H&H barrel shortened to 18.5" already had it shortened to 22" but figure its only $40.00 + shipping to get it done again.
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the 500 S&W with a factory 20" and a standard (or folding stock) would be compact ...and adequate. I see some guys have a 15" pistol barrel in 500S&W and pistol gripped frame ... if you coupled that barrel with an 11 inch (cut down) stock and action - would get two pieces closer to 12" and overall of 27.

course still only single shot .. but You Tube has some impressive videos of similar combinations
 
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