Unburned powder, 44-40 & IMR4227

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commonman

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I am working on a load for my 44-40 using a Lee cast bullet (drops at 212 to 213 grains WW alloy). Sizing to .429 and taper crimped on 16.5 grains of IMR4227.

I have never loaded for a 44-40 rifle before and have always used Winchester LP primers for my revolver, so I used the same for these. The Lyman manual lists the load with Win WLP .

It was just above 0C at the range. I am experiencing large groups and unburned powder spread up the barrel and left in the cases.

I expect that I need a hotter primer for these conditions, but am not sure if a WLR will be hotter or not. Can anyone tell me what primer I should go to for this load?
 
I don't know your problem, but it is certainly not the primer that is at fault.
Any primer will be fine at much colder temperatures than that.
However, there may be oils or greases on the firing mechanism that would cause a weak hit on the primer. This will deter the primer, not giving it full power.
 
Just another thought, any possible contamination of the powder during reloading like lube, moisture or something causing some of the powder to not burn the same?
 
In my humble opinion 4227 is too slow for your reduced load and works good in max. loads for the .44 mag., i don't even care for it in that application. It will work but leave alot of unburnt powder, the case holds alot of powder and your only using a portion of the space.
 
Clarification ? Are you using pistol or rifle primers? Standard rifle primers should be working fine.................Harold
 
Harold, I am using Winchester Large Pistol Primers. That is what the Lyman manual calls for. I have used a similar load, 20 grains behind a 195 grain cast bullet in a Savage 303 with WLR and have never experienced a problem. That is what got me to wondering.

The cases are clean, the bullets are lubed with Lee Liquid Alox all set up well and I even wipe the bullet bases clean before seating them. The rifle is new, and fires my W231 pistol loads just fine.

Ben, you called 16.5 grains a reduced load and yet the Lyman manual lists 17 grain as max for their older rifle group and 20.5 grains with a stronger rifle and a jacketed bullet. That doesn't seem very reduced to me. Would a larger load ignite better?
 
That's kinda what I'm thinking, the .44/40 case holds more powder then the .44 Mag., a fair bit more, and that 16 grain load is way below starting loads for the smaller cased .44 Mag., and reduced loads of slow burning powder don't usually work so well. Is this all making sense???? That's why I'm saving money and probs. using Trail Boss in the big .44/40 case.....Ben
 
ben hunchak said:
In my humble opinion 4227 is too slow for your reduced load and works good in max. loads for the .44 mag., i don't even care for it in that application. It will work but leave alot of unburnt powder, the case holds alot of powder and your only using a portion of the space.
Click to expand...

IMO this is the correct answer. You're trying to use a powder that requires a pressure higher than what you're getting with 16 grs, and as a result you're not getting a clean burn. Either use more powder (e.g. 20.0+ grs - assuming your gun is rated for it) or try 6.0 or 7.0 grs of a faster powder like Win 231 or Titegroup.
 
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