unburnt powder in barrel model 94

WhelanLad

WhelanLad

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hey fellas, im loading pretty light with 4198,?? AR2207 in the 375 Winchester big bore, loading 20gr with 245gr Hardcasts......
in the 38-55 range.

im noticing unburnt powder, maybe 4-8 granules at times?.....

whats up with that, any issues?

do i need to keep charging until it fully burns clean but try keep velocity low? or maybe a faster powder even?
 
Yes, it's happening because you're loading "light" - below the optimum pressure for 4198. Increasing the pressure (adding powder) will rectify it.

That said, what's the problem with the unburnt powder? Is the load inaccurate? Are the granules fouling and jamming the action? Is it just cosmetic?

If you must have a certain low MV and cannot have unburnt powder, you'll need to use less of a faster powder.
 
If you can find a pound of UNIQUE, then this fast burning powder is cleaner and accurate for plinker lead loads.
The 38-55 shooters swear by this for fun loads.
 
B said:
You could try a magnum primer or even just more 4198.
Click to expand...

This ^^^ along with a harder crimp will alleviate unburnt powder in a lot of light load situations but not always, has been my experience. If the load/slug combination shoots within my satisfactory, I have started to ignore unburnt powder and I really haven't noticed a degradation in accuracy with a small amount of unburnt powder in the light cast bullet loads that i notice it in.

Sometimes what we think is unburnt kernels is actually just carbon particle that did not atomize during firing. You have to push a few kernels out of the bore onto a piece of tin foil and try to light it. I have found that some powders will leave unburnable carbon and others will leave kernels that readily burn from a match touch .
 
Pretty much what Andy said. Low pressure loads don't burn as efficiently. But 4198 reduces very nicely compared to many powders. If it's working don't worry about it.
 
WhelanLad said:
hey fellas, im loading pretty light with 4198,?? AR2207 in the 375 Winchester big bore, loading 20gr with 245gr Hardcasts......
in the 38-55 range.

im noticing unburnt powder, maybe 4-8 granules at times?.....

whats up with that, any issues?

do i need to keep charging until it fully burns clean but try keep velocity low? or maybe a faster powder even?
Click to expand...

you can try a few things to improve the load you are using

Not sure if the powder you are useing is 4198 or 4895 or 4227

the lyman # 4 cast book list a start load of 24g imr 4198 / 249g 357248, if so you are on the light side ...? are your cases coming out clean or sooty on the neck?
if sooty you need to increase charge
4227 lists a start of 22g

I would bump charge up to 21g and add dacron, and see how it goes
ht tps://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers
you can try adding 3/4 to 1g of dacron on top of powder before you seat bullet
the dacron will increase vel / and lower sd / and improve out of position shooting

you can also look for loads using 2400 and other faster powders/
 
I've been in that arena a few times. Basically, the unburnt powder is telling you that your load is not "in the zone".

Interestingly, in my Sask commemorative, I did use just about the same load, a cast bullet, a LEE 379-250, and 20.7 gr of H4198, and various LR primers. I do not recall any unburnt powder issues. I did prefer some other powders, like SR4759, 5744 and Reloader 7, but H4198 was never an issue. The 38-55 and 375 are similar, the 20 gr charge is in the book, IIRC. Although similar in burn rate, IMR and H 4198 have somewhat different characteristics. You referenced AR2207, same as H4198.

I've read that most handloaders shooting the 375 Winchester use 38-55 cases and data for shooting cast, there may be something in that. With the 38-55, the groove diameters are all over the map, and usually bullets need to be 0.379" to work. Have you measured your groove diameter?

4 or 5 granules (unburnt kernels) is not much, with 4227, in a 44-40, I collected enough to put in a small pile and was able to light it with a match, totally unburnt kernels were left in the case. If you chrono your load, you will be able to tell if you are having ignition issues.

To illustrate, here are the chrono results from that 44-40 load. Notice the difference powder position makes.

Velocity Av 664/860 Es 80.5/59 Sd 35.3/25.23 Shots 5>/5<

Nitro
 
8.0 grs of Red Dot or Unique will give you about 1000 fps

20.0 grs of 2400 will give you about 1600 fps

25.0 grs of AR2207 will give you about 1600 fps
 
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Fellas Great replys an here some of the facts in your writings.

Yes AR2207 , so H4198.
Yes- its not really in the Zone, for the 375bb data.... 245gr hardcast / commercial. an it is below 38-55 Data by a smidge....
No- sooty cases, but ceertainly no excess pressure- case is sealing - crimping fairly tight with lee crimp die. flairing with lee uni flair.
Copy that- for the slight increase in grains to get back 'in the zone'
Copy- on that it isnt an issue, cosmetic pickup , no leading with light load, got leading up in 28gr range. 2207.
its a XTR so its about 376 375.5 from memory, these projies are .376 with coating.

No real drama then my end, its not much, an no sign of acuracy loss,,, as it never really had accuracy to begin with haha....
* stayin with 4198 as use in .222 aswell*


heading out to pick up trail cam before weekend warriors this afternoon, ambush with said model 94....see what pans out
Cheers!!
 
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