Units of measurement for Black Powder

Skinny 1950

Skinny 1950

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After doing some research I have come to realize that: Grains are a unit of weight not volume. The Imperial units of volume (ie. gallon,quart,pint,ounce) are useless for measuring gun powder unless you are shooting a cannon.
The metric system offers some hope of standardizing the units of measurement for measuring the amount of powder in a charge.
Suppose you have a powder flask that has a non adjustable spout on it and you want to know the volume that the spout throws: Fill the spout with water and weigh the water.
One gram equals 15.4323 grains
One gram of water @4 degrees C equals one C.C. (cubic centimeter) or milliliter
The problem is that different powders have different Specific Gravity's
To find the specific gravity of a powder weigh equal volumes of the powder and water to find the ratio.
I hope that I am not adding to the confusion......:eek:
 
Grains aren't an Imperial unit either. Metric will not be used for any powder weighing when the U.S. doesn't use it. Specific gravity means nothing.
 
As with many words in the English language there's more than one meaning to the measure we call a "grain". Grains is a common measure of weight but the same term is also used for volume when measuring black powder and substitutes. How the same word came to be used for two different measures is likely some obscure historical story. But the fact remains that when talking about black powder we measure the volume used in grains. So you need to stop thinking about weights and go buy a BP measuring tube. The best way is to get an adjustable BP measure which is calibrated in 10 grain steps. From that point you can eyeball any in between measurements. Luckily BP isn't that fussy about a grain or two here and there since it's such a small percentage. Or if you're working on accuracy loads then use the adjustable measure to get in the ballpark and then do up a custom measure from an old rifle caseing or similar that you cut down to hold the same volume.

Check out Chart #2 on this page. It shows a BP and substitutes conversion from volumetric grains to CC's.
http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

I've also found that BP in a small custom measure made from a .44Mag case tends to settle if you tap it or jiggle it. So if you're going for consistency figure out a way of handing each dispensing the exact same way.
 
Pounds, kilograms, grains, dram same as a drachm, coal tubs (Newfoundland), pennyweight, scruples, metric carat; are all units of mass.
See National Standard of Canada, Canadian Metric Practice Guide, CAN3-Z1.76, or a later addition.

Volume measure of powder is a convince, as loading using a scale is awkward, on a trail walk.

Acre foot, bushel, fluid drachm ( UK ), fluid dram, gill, peck, cunit, cord, board foot, etc, are measurements of volume or capacity.

Norma uses both metric and Imperial units on it’s web site. The world is moving on, the only country that was not committed to switching to the ISO Metric system in 1976 was Burma
 
Skinny 1950 said:
The metric system offers some hope of standardizing the units of measurement for measuring the amount of powder in a charge.
Suppose you have a powder flask that has a non adjustable spout on it and you want to know the volume that the spout throws: Fill the spout with water and weigh the water.
Click to expand...

Why would you calibrate the spout using water? It is powder that you will be filling it with and logic to me says that you should fill it with the granulation of black powder of your choice and weigh that.

It is my impression that the substitute powders are measured using the volume equivalent of black powder rather than actual weight of substitute powder

cheers mooncoon
 
Thanks for the input on this and I will go by the chart that BCRider posted a link to, this will get me in the ball park and I will work it up from there.

Mooncoon the reason for weighing a container full of water is to determine it's Volume. One gram equals one CC of volume. One kilogram of water has a volume of 1000 CC (@4 degrees C).

I will get one of those calibrated powder dispensers and be done with it....thanks again.
 
So is the 45-70 something else now?

Jees hope they havn't been measuring that black stuff wrong for the past 100 years the 47-70 been around and how many centuries before that were the chinese measuring black?

Ken.
 
Skinny 1950 said:
Thanks for the input on this and I will go by the chart that BCRider posted a link to, this will get me in the ball park and I will work it up from there.

Mooncoon the reason for weighing a container full of water is to determine it's Volume. One gram equals one CC of volume. One kilogram of water has a volume of 1000 CC (@4 degrees C).

I will get one of those calibrated powder dispensers and be done with it....thanks again.
Click to expand...

Don't complicate things!!:eek:
Throw a charge, and check it with a scale.
it it runs 50 grains, two spouts full is 100 - easy as that.
Depending on your rifle, you can pretty quickly figure out a starting load by asking any experienced buckskinner what it needs for a target load, and go from there.
You can buy adjustable measures that are graduated, some have numbers on them, some don't .
Just make sure you use the same one every time once you have figured out which line will give you the best accuracy and which line will give you the most knockdown power and accuracy.
it's really quite simple.....
Cat
 
Skinny 1950 said:
Mooncoon the reason for weighing a container full of water is to determine it's Volume. One gram equals one CC of volume. One kilogram of water has a volume of 1000 CC (@4 degrees C).
Click to expand...

I realize the weigth/volume ratio of water but at the same time more or less it is meaningless in terms of loading black powder. I also realize that you can multiply the weight of water by the specific gravity of black powder but it is much easier to simply fill the spout with powder in the first place and weight that.

cheers mooncoon
 
I filled a .45ACP case with Triple Seven FFFG and that amount of powder weighs 20.8 grains.
I don't have any black powder but if I did I could fill the case until there is 15 grains in it..cut the case off at that level and that would be my measuring tool. Is this correct or am I going wrong somewhere.
 
Skinny do you use a flask? I do and I have bought several flask tips of various pre measured volume sizes that are rated from 15gr to 30 gr. Works great
 
I have two flasks, on one I have a 15 grain spout that throws 5.5 grains of Triple Seven....the other one is 24 grains and it gives me 12 grains of 777.
The 15 grain spout doesn't even come close to filling the chamber and neither does the 24 grain spout and Hodgdon claims that using filler is dangerous. It is also stated that the ball should touch the powder so there is no air space. To do that I would have to press the ball in about an inch and it would take a lot of lard up front to seal the chamber.
 
I've got a flask that supposedly throws 25 grains. But I recieved a dipper in a Lee die set for a 38-55 that is a 28 grain size. I find on a bench that it is easier to use than the flask; less spillage.
And I don't want to be the guy that verifies the old wives tale about an ember in the cylinder = flask becoming a small grenade. Highly unlikely ; but still...
 
Skinny 1950 said:
I have two flasks, on one I have a 15 grain spout that throws 5.5 grains of Triple Seven....the other one is 24 grains and it gives me 12 grains of 777.
The 15 grain spout doesn't even come close to filling the chamber and neither does the 24 grain spout and Hodgdon claims that using filler is dangerous. It is also stated that the ball should touch the powder so there is no air space. To do that I would have to press the ball in about an inch and it would take a lot of lard up front to seal the chamber.
Click to expand...

What exactly are you loading for again?
It sounds like a revolver to me, am I right?
brand and caliber would help us give you a starting point .
Cat
 
Pounds, kilograms, grains, dram same as a drachm, coal tubs (Newfoundland), pennyweight, scruples, metric carat; are all units of mass.
See National Standard of Canada, Canadian Metric Practice Guide, CAN3-Z1.76, or a later addition.

Volume measure of powder is a convince, as loading using a scale is awkward, on a trail walk.

Acre foot, bushel, fluid drachm ( UK ), fluid dram, gill, peck, cunit, cord, board foot, etc, are measurements of volume or capacity
Click to expand...

Lets not forget that blackpowder has been around for about 800 years and some of the conventions that we use today are holdovers from an archaic time long before the National Standard of Canada had their say in the matter. One would suspect that the reason BP was measured by volume is due to the need to accurately and quickly measure out charges by uneducated soldiers, trappers and woodsmen far away from the nearest accurate balance beam scale. Not so much for convenience on a trail walk. :rolleyes:
 
I have a Pietta .44 1851 "Yank" and a Uberti .36 1851, I am casting balls for both and conicals for the .36.

1851UbertiPiettatogether002.jpg
 
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