unknown flintlock help id please

cdnrokon

cdnrokon

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Please help me ID this old flintlock , got it from a guy whos uncle willed it to him I looked at the lockplate name ,and tried to find some info on it but nothing? Lockplate has the name A.Schmay ,octagon to round barrel some faint markings on top of barrel barrel is 0.756 on the inside.Brass butt plate held on with square nails.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/cdnrokon/flintlock004.jpg
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/cdnrokon/flintlock011.jpg
[URL="http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/cdnrokon/flintlock009.jpg"]http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r289/cdnrokon/flintlock012.jpg[/URL]
 
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Hard to tell from the photos, but from the style standpoint, it is early, perhaps first quarter of 18th century. Then the question arises, is it an original or a reproduction? If it is original, it looks to be in remarkable condition.
 
Great shape!!
Looks like a trade gun of some sort??

Its condition is fairly amazing, maybe a dutch gun for the african trade?/
Or a unsold pristene one for the canadian or american indian trade?

aside from those 2 it could also be a nice repro.

Either / or its a great lookin arm in fine shape, if you take care of it ,It will take care of you!

Flintlocks are my personal favourite shooting disipline.
 
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Definitely appears to be a trade gun of some sort. From the closeup of the lockplate it appears to be a "doglock" or some sort of external sear. A pic of the entire lock area would help. Most unusual.
 
The pitting and marks on the lock plate make me think it is old rather than a reproduction, also the makers stamp on the barrel. I am guessing that the lock has been sanded clean/bright. I have never seen one with an outside sear like that unless it is some sort of safety I am looking at. How about posting a photo of the complete lock.

cheers mooncoon
 
close up of lock
Picture001.jpg
 
The hammer (####) has been welded up and the sear appears new. I find myself wondering if the original hammer was broken and a new hammer base made with an outside sear notch and a new sear made to match. I am sure that I have never seen a lock mechanism like it before. At the same time I am equally sure that the rest of the gun is original.

cheers mooncoon
 
curiouser and curiouser ---- the lock has a double sear on the half #### and may have been made that way in the beginning although the outer sear looks sort of new. About the only reason that I can think of is a sort of safety if the sear nose broke but definitely is different from anything I have seen before

cheers mooncoon
 
It has been over-cleaned with a rotary wire brush. I believe that is a dog-lock, but I could be wrong...
 
RRCo. said:
It has been over-cleaned with a rotary wire brush. I believe that is a dog-lock, but I could be wrong...
Click to expand...

Definitely not a dog lock; they have a hook down from the top, at the back of the hammer. The hook is independent of the sear and trigger and functions as a safety. The "dog" in this case is and extension of the sear and functions as a secondary sear at half ####

cheers mooncoon
 
I have to concede that I was wrong in saying that the lock is not a dog lock--- it is actually a very unusual type of dog lock with the dog on the bottom rather than the top. I am positive the hammer/#### is a home made replacement as is the dog and originally the notch would have been considerably deeper and the dog a closer fit and a bit longer. The hammer would have rested on the dog under tension and slightly further back than 1/2 #### and a very deep notch would have somewhat locked the dog in place until the gun was cocked

cheers mooncoon
 
There is a Schinau in what is now the Czech Republic, formerly Bohemia at that time: the 1700s. It's Czech name is Číňov, population today about 550!

This is an area of German settlement since the middle ages; the Sudetenland as the Nazi's called it.

If the "A" is an intial, all this geographical stuff is irrelevant except that whoever made the gun or their family probably came from this place at one time, but someone with that name could have found their way to almost anywhere in Europe or America.

If it is the French "A" for "At Schinaü", it lacks the correct grave accent, but that's not impossible I guess. If it were a trade musket made for the French market; that is for trading in the French colonies, it might be so marked. French was still the 'lingua franca' in the 17th century anway!

It almost looks like there is a tail on the "U" to make it a "Y", but umlauts never appear on "Y"s AFAIK... Is there another letter under the frizzen spring?

It's so roughly made, I doubt a smith would sign his name to it. I would write to the Royal Armouries or Smithsonian with photos if you really want to learn more.

Personally, I'd say the hammer etc. are original, but I'm no expert. The wear on the hole through the jaw screw and the pits on the hammer etc. make me think they are of a similar age. Notice the little filigree on top of the hammer and the equally unnecessary filing of the end of the mainspring. That Germanic love of detail, even though pointless on such a rough piece; they just can't help it!

No other markings I guess?
 
On the outside view of the lock, you can see what appears to be a weld between the top of the hammer and the base. The fitting of the sear is poor and the base of the hammer has only a shallow notch which combined with its position defeats the purpose of the dog. The notch should be deep and the hammer should be slightly farther back than the 1/2 #### so that the dog is under tension and partially trapped by the hammer. When the hammer is cocked further the dog would drop away.
All of that is to say that the base of the hammer and the dog are replacements. I think that A Shinay is the maker but his name does not appear in die neue Stockel which is a listing of most of the gun makers up to around 1900. Sort of implies he must have been a fairly small time maker

cheers mooncoon
 
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