Unloading muzzle loader ???

if you go back to your original quotes, the muzzle loader is defined as being loaded because it has propellant in the breach and a firearm may not be transported that way. An exception is made for muzzle loaders being transported between hunting sites as long as it is uncapped or the lock removed in the case of flintlocks. When you reach home the storage rules apply (unless you are constantly at home with the gun) and the gun may not be stored "loaded" and loaded is defined in the first portion of your quote.

transporting from hunting to home and vice versa is not transporting between hunting sites; it is transporting to a hunting site or from a hunting site. The issue of transporting on pavement or more correctly once you leave the secondary roads accessing hunting sites has been discussed a number of times in various publications and an interpretation similar to mine has been used.

cheers mooncoon
 
41 Colt said:
I have heard of flintlocks firing without any powder in the pan, the sparks from the flint strike being enough to ignite the small amount of powder poking through the vent liner hole. Just be aware of that if you leave it loaded.
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Been there - Done that! Was a bit of a surprise and a reminder of the volatility of black. I'm thinking that there was dust left on the pan even after dumping the 4F to knapp the flint.

Knapp knapp knapp, test - Boom!
 
mooncoon said:
if you go back to your original quotes, the muzzle loader is defined as being loaded because it has propellant in the breach and a firearm may not be transported that way. An exception is made for muzzle loaders being transported between hunting sites as long as it is uncapped or the lock removed in the case of flintlocks. When you reach home the storage rules apply (unless you are constantly at home with the gun) and the gun may not be stored "loaded" and loaded is defined in the first portion of your quote.

transporting from hunting to home and vice versa is not transporting between hunting sites; it is transporting to a hunting site or from a hunting site. The issue of transporting on pavement or more correctly once you leave the secondary roads accessing hunting sites has been discussed a number of times in various publications and an interpretation similar to mine has been used.

cheers mooncoon
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Post a reference. Nowhere in there does it say anything about between hunting sites vs. between there and home.

In the Criminal Code of Canada (Federal Law) it states that the muzzle loading firearm is NOT considered loaded until it has powder in the pan, or a cap on the nipple. To tell folks otherwise, without posting a reference, preferably a link to the relevant law, is to be propagating lies for the sake of feeling good about oneself.

You can do as you like. You can tell folks to do it as you like.

But if you continue to tell folks that this is law, without putting up proof, it makes your advice in general, suspect.

Cheers
Trev
 
trevj said:
Post a reference. Nowhere in there does it say anything about between hunting sites vs. between there and home.

In the Criminal Code of Canada (Federal Law) it states that the muzzle loading firearm is NOT considered loaded until it has powder in the pan, or a cap on the nipple. To tell folks otherwise, without posting a reference, preferably a link to the relevant law, is to be propagating lies for the sake of feeling good about oneself.

You can do as you like. You can tell folks to do it as you like.

But if you continue to tell folks that this is law, without putting up proof, it makes your advice in general, suspect.

Cheers
Trev
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100% correct.
 
mooncoon said:
In reply to horseshoe; while inlines may have easily removeable breach plugs, most traditional style guns do not. There is a gadget that uses compressed gas to remove the charge but I am not sure how well it would work on a flintlock, particularly one which does not have a hooked breach and removeable barrel.

cheers mooncoon
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I was referring to the OP, from back before the thread derailed, where he mentioned it was a Contender that he was inquiring about. Was just trying to get it back on track...

Aren't these a break-open breach-plug style ML? If so, just pull the plug, dump the powder and push the projectile all the way through the breach, no?

Camp Cook said:
I'm new to hunting with a muzzle loader I have a load worked up for my T/C Contender Gonic 50 cal mag muzzle loader barrel and I'm ready to give a try hunting for the first time then I started thinking I can load the powder/bullet and transport without a primer in place, I can hike/hunt all day with it loaded and with a primer in place but how do I put it away at the end of the day?

Do I have to fire off the load and waste the bullet or is it ok to leave it in the barrel till the next time I head out or what do you guys do/recommend?

I am loading with Triple 7 powder.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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You are correct I now know that I can pull out the breach plug but I live only 1/2 hour drive from where I deer hunt and when I come back out from hunting I am in an area that does not allow the discharge of center fire firearms = shotgun with shot only.

Kind of brings up another issue I would be breaking the law if I drove a bit to far before remembering to discharge the muzzle loader then shooting it out.

I'm liking the idea of not unloading the barrel I am now planning on doing this and to remind myself that it is loaded already I will be putting a piece of tape over the muzzle.

Thanks for all of the suggestions you have answered my question completely.
 
tonyg said:
10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if

(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.
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I am guessing that your quote is from the firearms act. Using your quote --- FA 10(b says being transported between hunting sites. In most cases your home is not a hunting site.

The definition you quoted says that the gun is loaded. FA 10(b) does not say the muzzle loader is unloaded; it says that may be transported with a charge in the barrel as long as the primer is removed or the lock removed. It also does not say that the gun can be stored in that fashion. It is a temporary measure to allow you to move to a different site without unloading your gun. You only have to render your gun relatively safe.

You are reading a lot more into your own quotes than actually exists.

cheers mooncoon
 
Take heed of Mooncoon's position here OP. Not only is his interpretation correct, its probably one of the only aspects of Canadian firearms laws that make any sense. While hunting the firearm can be charged, {otherwise its hang on mr. moose until I meter out this here powder...}and can remain charged while on the hunt. However when coming back to civilization the gun is to have the charge removed {one way or other} and can't be stored with a charged barrel. Think about it, 1 spark and she's going off...with a projectile in it. Do you store your center fires chambered with the safety on? Of course not. No different for Black powder.
 
Camp Cook said:
I'm liking the idea of not unloading the barrel I am now planning on doing this and to remind myself that it is loaded already I will be putting a piece of tape over the muzzle.
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I just put a small nick on my ram rod to verify where it is when there's a charge and ball down there......a quick check and I know she's "loaded"
Happy Hunting :cheers:
 
BCWILL said:
I just put a small nick on my ram rod to verify where it is when there's a charge and ball down there......a quick check and I know she's "loaded"
Happy Hunting :cheers:
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This good advice was in the manual that came with my muzzleloader. Not much can go wrong if followed. Of course you will have to remember to CHECK and VERIFY every time without fail.

(I know a guy who put a Pyrodex charge in a LYMAN Trade Rifle at the range, stopped for a pee, then recharged the powder and ball, and let her rip. What a whump!) (It wasn't me. Honest!) The fact that nobody died was a real tribute to LYMAN quality.

Mark that ramrod and check every time!
 
to put the original quoted regulations in perspective of modern cartridge rifles, in effect they are saying

1. a gun is loaded when there is a cartridge in the chamber

2. the gun may be transported between hunting sites with a cartridge in the chamber as long as the bolt is removed

While obviously the regulations do not say that with respect to modern cartridge rifles, my example is basically what the regulations quoted say about muzzle loaders. Perhaps the closest parallel would be in the case of bolt action inlines where I would interpret the regulations to imply that you can transport between hunting sites loaded but with bolt removed. Obviously they are not flintlocks but the bolt is the closest thing to the lock and would meet the intent of the law

cheers mooncoon
 
You can load your rifle and transport with a ball and powder charge in the rifle. You may not however cap in while transporting. If you are not caped in your rifle is considered unloaded if a caplock, if you are a flintlock your weapon is considered unloaded if your pan is not primed with flint in place. Now as for discharging your rifle at the end of the hunting day I can only tell you what I do. I use holey black and I leave my rifle charged at the end of the day. I would not do this with trip 7 or pyrodex as they are very hygroscopic. Black powder is also but to a lesser extent. Your greased patch and ball and or an overpowder wad will keep your powder dry and prevent a rusty chamber from water absorbing also U should keep your hammer down on the nipple when not caped in.. Back in the day the mountain men and early settlers kept their weapons loaded all the time, they had to their life depended on it.
 
I spoke to a local Conservation Officer yesterday to get clarification on the transporting of muzzle loaders in Manitoba.

1) You may not leave home in a vehicle with a charge in the gun even without a primer in place.

2) When you get to your destination you may load your gun, install a primer and proceed to hunt or shoot.

3) During your daily hunt you may transport your gun by vehicle from one hunting spot to another hunting spot with a charge in place provided the primer is removed from the gun.

4) When you have finished hunting and are going to return home by vehicle you must remove the charge from your gun either by firing it off or by removing the breech plug and pushing out the charge. Of course in the case of a sidehammer you can pull the bullet and dump the propellant.

The above is the law as it is enforced in Manitoba.

Without a doubt there is idiocy involved in the above that only a government could cook up. For example, is it legal to discharge a rifle after dark in order to unload? Or do we need to stop hunting before dark in order to fire the charge? Do we really want to shoot into the ground at our hunting spot and send the critters packing into the next RM? It is apparently legal to walk around in hi-power season with primed live cartridges in our pockets and that is considered to be perfectly safe??:confused::confused:

I dldn't get a clear answer from my friendly neighborhood CO.
 
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There will be no clear answer from a government employee .They are generally no more informed than the rest of us. At least that has been my experience.
The wording of what is loaded/unloaded ( blackpowder) is ambiguous at best.
 
tonyg said:


First I've heard of that. When did that change take place ? My rules still say not capped , not loaded.

Definition :
“unloaded”, in respect of a firearm, means that any propellant, projectile or cartridge that can be discharged from the firearm is not contained in the breech or firing chamber of the firearm nor in the cartridge magazine attached to or inserted into the firearm. "

10. (1) An individual may transport a non-restricted firearm only if
(a) except in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, it is unloaded; and
(b) in the case of a muzzle-loading firearm that is being transported between hunting sites, its firing cap or flint is removed.
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This.

You cannot legally leave a ML charged overnight, primer or not.
 
It's a pretty sweet deal that I can hunt from anywhere I am when I'm in hunting mode. Backyard, friends' house, treestand.

Btw, this is completely ridiculous. Why would I want to waste a shot of powder, bullet, and primer that costs more than a rifle cartridge? Good luck getting any of my muzzleloaders to fire without a primer on the nipple or on the breech plug. Not going to happen. Which is why I am in the category of not getting my panties in a bunch over leaving the charge in overnight or even for weeks and months. TREAT EVERY FIREARM AS IF IT WAS LOADED.
 
^^^ Pretty much.
I have an RCMP friend , a life long BP shooter. (He has retired now) , and we discussed this with many shooters over the years.
Consensus was always the same . No primer , not loaded. Lawbreakers, all of us, perhaps....meh.....
 
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