Unusual 1945 Longbranch

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purple

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Here's an ex- Indian service one that's very different from anything I've seen.

- 1945 Longbranch, yet a 20L s/n in characters twice as large as the usual.:eek: The butt socket around the s/n is fully rounded and doesn't appear to have had a previous number ground out
- Bolt numbered to match, but only with the "L" and last 4 numbers of the s/n
- A real parts jumble incl all of Brit/Savage/LB parts. There's even a No5 trigger guard and an early button style cocking piece
- Barrel has the DC proof and "46" on right side of chamber
- Barrel also marked with "S 35" on left side of chamber
- Top of chamber stamped " IP" along with 2 oval stamps with 3 characters within each stamp
- Receiver stamped " RB 11/46" above ejector screw
- Mixed wood incl "Ishapore screw" in forend. Forend is numbered to the rifle in large letters.
- Bore is pristine
- Very light wear and even bearing on both bolt lugs. Headspace checks OK

It's hard to square the 20L s/n on a 1945 rifle:confused:, but it's obviously been stamped after the receiver was made. My best guess is that this may have been a spare receiver which was built up in 1946 with a LB 1946 barrel. After that it wound up in India with some additional level of rebuild done there. Any other ideas?

The metal is caked with dried grease and paint, but no rust or pitting. I'm going to soak the receiver and parts in mineral spirits for a while and see what it all looks like. After that maybe a parkerizing job if needed and a fit up with all LB wood and parts other than the bolt. The barrel is very nice, so hopefully it will prove to be a good shooter.
 
It could be a "parts" gun that someone assembled from bits and pieces or it could be one of the Pakistan arms bazaar copies. If the latter, I'd be leery of actually firing it.
 
If its one of the Indian refurbs, that dried grease might actually be linseed oil. Both of the Indian refurbs I bought had been drenched in enough linseed to foul the actions & I had to resort to castrol super clean to get it off.
 
I saw a Long Branch (T) rifle a couple of years ago that a member of my acquaintance on here pounced on. Same story.

Long Branch serial numbers that were twice as tall as usual, mismatched hodgepodge of parts, Ishy screwed forend, etc etc. Not one clear Canadian marking on anything.

I could have had it for a very reasonable amount but passed on it.

But yes, if you clean it up and clad it in all LB parts and wood, you might have something worth having, although it will never really be correct.
 
I'd would be very carefull with this. It could even be a Khyber Pass copy. They often use whatever punches that they have availiable. That could explain why the s/n is bigger then it should be. Also that 'RB 11/46' doesn't seen right to me. Look closely for spelling errors and try to match proof with know proof marks. This website has most of the markings that one would see http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/main.htm.
 
Cdn303 said:
I'd would be very carefull with this. It could even be a Khyber Pass copy. They often use whatever punches that they have availiable. That could explain why the s/n is bigger then it should be. Also that 'RB 11/46' doesn't seen right to me. Look closely for spelling errors and try to match proof with know proof marks. This website has most of the markings that one would see http://www.enfieldrifles.ca/main.htm.
Click to expand...

RB 11/46 is correct and I have no reason to think it's not a real Long Branch. That's a Long Branch refurb marking from when they still marked them.

LongBranchRefurbMarkingLarge.jpg
 
I have the big Skennerton "bible" and have checked the various markings against this as well as the website quoted. On a closer look with a magnifying glass I see the DC proof symbol on the right rear of the receiver as well as on the rt side of the chamber as previously reported.

I've owned and handled a lot of Longbranches over the yrs and the receiver and barrel are bona-fide from all appearances. I don't see this as a "Khyber Pass" knockoff. The big mysteries to me are the "RB 11-46" stamping above the ejector screw (although this may correlate to the "46" stamp on the rt side of the chamber beside the DC proof there) and the out of sequence and large stamped s/n in relation to the 1945 s/n range.

I know that the No1 MkIII rifles were a favourite "Khyber Pass" copy. I didn't know that they had done No4 knock-offs, but anything is possible there. It's interesting to see what can be done in a 3rd world country w/o proper tools and techniques. I spent 3 yrs in Syria where there is a lot of Caterpillar heavy equipment, but zero spare parts outlets. One reason for this is the humongous import duties that must be paid on already pricey imported parts-all tracked by the authorities through Damascus airport or the seaports at Lattakia and Tartous. This stuff is kept going by reconditioning/re-building components, rather than replacing them. A lot of this work is done by young boys using hand tools in back street shops. This was quite an eye-opener for our Canadian mechanics who are often not much more than parts changers and seemed stuck without a big spare parts source.

After a tune-up this one is going to the range as the barrel is very nice. The muzzle is tight with a reading of .302 and the bore will not pass the military .303 diameter bore gauge. I found a couple of No2 boltheads which fit properly and will shrink the headspace somewhat.
 
cantom said:
RB 11/46 is correct and I have no reason to think it's not a real Long Branch. That's a Long Branch refurb marking from when they still marked them.

LongBranchRefurbMarkingLarge.jpg
Click to expand...

That's exactly the stamp I'm looking at. Same location too. It appears that the "B" is in fact the superimposed "L/B". Now what about that goofy 20L s/n? I'm still thinking a build on an unused/un-serialed 1945 production receiver with a new 1946 barrel and a s/n assigned to match one on a condemned receiver.
 
Ser#

I believe when these were imported into the US before they were brought up here, that many of the rifles had faint serial #s, so the US Gov made the importers re-stamp the serial #s to be readable, hence the goofy fonts used. That was how that LB sniper that came out of Pakistan/India that a member on here ended up with was restamped.
 
purple said:
That's exactly the stamp I'm looking at. Same location too. It appears that the "B" is in fact the superimposed "L/B". Now what about that goofy 20L s/n? I'm still thinking a build on an unused/un-serialed 1945 production receiver with a new 1946 barrel and a s/n assigned to match one on a condemned receiver.
Click to expand...

I saw a sportered 1943 LongBranch at a gun store in St. John's 2 weeks ago that started with a 20L serial number.

-Dave
 
They sure do. Just looked at a NZ marked 20L that had been DP'd.

What it says is your rifle saw service in WWII such that it needed rebuilding after the war was over, and that probably means in the ETO. (European Theatre of Operations)
 
granite said:
I believe when these were imported into the US before they were brought up here, that many of the rifles had faint serial #s, so the US Gov made the importers re-stamp the serial #s to be readable, hence the goofy fonts used. That was how that LB sniper that came out of Pakistan/India that a member on here ended up with was restamped.
Click to expand...

This one doesn't show any trace of a previous s/n below/beneath the current one. Also, the surface of the butt socket has a fully rounded contour and doesn't show any change of profile where an earlier s/n may have been ground out. No US importers or Brit proofs on the rifle at all. My best bet is still for an LB rebuild of an unservicable 20L rifle using a new replacement 1945 receiver with the number of the unservicable rifle stamped on it. Once I get past the paint and built up crud on the bolt I'm interested to see if I'll be able to ID the maker. I see a real mixmaster of LB, Savage, and Brit parts.

Thanks to Tom for the pic of the LB rebuild stamp on the receiver. That authenticates what this one is. The interesting question is how/why it got to India after rebuild in Canada in 1946. I always believed that the the Indians had their No4s transferred to them directly from the Brits who were the recipients of about half of the LB rifle production during the war years.
 
I can't say as to the purchase of the rifles, but it would appear we sold a lot of our parts to either India or Pakistan in the 60s. Canadian parts which have shown up on the surplus market around the time all the Indian/Pakistani rifles were released are packed in those old Cdn brown cardboard boxes with NSNs on them.
 
Kindly pardon my intrusion here, but would not the "RB 11/46" mean "Rebuilt by Long Branch November, 1946". To me, that's the only explanation for the conjoined LB in the second punch; it is clearly not a simple "B", nor are the strikes consistent. Seems perfect for a rebuild mark, as has been pointed out previously.

Too bad more things aren't marked properly.... even if it does mess up the pristine "purity" of an "original" rifle. These things had long Service careers and underwent rebuilds and Views during those careers.

Many of the recently-released rifles are in FAR better condition than the pelters released in the 1950s and early 1960s. Reason is that they released the beat-up ones first, kept the best ones in war reserve...... and kept them up to date and in good condition for half a century or more.... and only THEN released them, the ones that weren't shredded.

I shall now run away and hide in the sock closet, having contributed nothing to this thread.
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I have a '42 longbranch that is a sister to your rifle. Mine has so much in common with yours its not funny. RB. 11/46 as well on left reciever wall. All parts marked either LB or S. Serial 20L24XX on bolt reciever and magazine. Even still has leather patches under trap door. Walnut stock, although butt is very rough textured. Ishy screw. Arabic letters on handguard and butt. Mk 1 rearsight. The striker in mine was butchered to a point with a grinder. The entire rifle is super oily as well. Mine doesn't appear to have black paint on it though.. Barrel is very very nice too. I wonder if we bought them from the same place?
 
flying pig said:
I have a '42 longbranch that is a sister to your rifle. Mine has so much in common with yours its not funny. RB. 11/46 as well on left reciever wall. All parts marked either LB or S. Serial 20L24XX on bolt reciever and magazine. Even still has leather patches under trap door. Walnut stock, although butt is very rough textured. Ishy screw. Arabic letters on handguard and butt. Mk 1 rearsight. The striker in mine was butchered to a point with a grinder. The entire rifle is super oily as well. Mine doesn't appear to have black paint on it though.. Barrel is very very nice too. I wonder if we bought them from the same place?
Click to expand...

Could be, if it was P&S;). I haven't done a Longbranch restoration for about 5 yrs and have some nice LB parts in the box, so decided to give this one a shot. It's got a 5 groove LB barrel with a "46" stamp. What's yours? Is the s/n on yours the original LB stamp size or is it done in larger characters? Also is the full s/n on the rear of the bolt handle? Mine only has the "L" and 4 numbers.
 
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