Unusual cylinder roll scene on fake Colt 1849 pocket pistol...

[tacfoley]

A visitor turned up to our range on the guest day today with a contemporary Belgian copy of a Colt pocket pistol.

Apart from the broken parts that made it a definite non-shooter, it had the most unusual cylinder roll scene I've ever clapped my eyes on. Instead of the navy scene that gave it its name, this one had a railroad scene - a locomotive trundling across a bridge, with sailboats passing underneath....

Anybody seen anything like this before?

Next time he turns up I'm going to ink-roll it, and send it to somebody here who can post it as an image to share with you.

tac

 

[tacfoley]

OK, more information incoming from a pal on another forum...Note that this is NOT the pistol I saw - THAT one has a 6" bbl.

Here is the link - http://www.rustyoldarms.co.uk/recently-sold/obsolete_caliber...

The caption reads -

PLEASE CLICK IMAGE TO VIEW - A .35 SIX SHOT REVOLVER SIGNED COLT, MANUFACTURED IN BELGIUM ON LICENCE, CIRCA 1860-with octagonal 3 1/2in. barrel, the top-flat signed 'ADDRESS COL SAML COLT' prefixed and suffixed with cross-key designs, the left hand side of barrel with additional marking 'NEW-YORK US AMERICA' over further cross key devices and a central crown, maker's mark of 'F.B.' with crown, radiused muzzle, bead fore-sight, plain long cylinder with engraved scene of a steam locomotive crossing a bridge, large cross-key stamps to each nipple buttress and Liege proofs, open iron frame stamped 'COLT'S PATENT', plated grip-straps and trigger-guard, two-piece smooth walnut grips, the whole retaining a strong amount of original blued finish and colour-hardening, good action, nice and tight with strong springs and mirror bore with deep rifling and very clean chambers. In all appearing very little used. Seriam number 55530 sold sold sold

Please note that the 'crossed keys' and other marks are actually British proof marks from Birmingham Proof House between 1813 and 1904, and are NOT modern. It does NOT have the air of being a 'Centaure' repro.

tac

 

[green]

German ALFA catalogue 1911 shows these, new, cal 9mm (36) choice of 5 or 6 shots. Nickel, blue or case hardened finish. Local collector had a pair of them in the 70s.

 

[drm3m]

Based on the photo in the link---it is a Model 1849 Colt Pocket Revolver (or replica) not a 1851 Colt Navy.
This model did not have a naval cylinder Scene---but rather a stagecoach robbery scene.
This revolver is .31 caliber.

The cylinders of early Colt revolvers were often roll-engraved with elaborate scenes. The scene depicted on this copper proof plate is called the "Stagecoach Holdup." It shows bandits attempting to rob a stagecoach but they are thwarted by passengers armed with Colt revolvers. The scene appears on several models, including the Model 1848 and 1849 Pocket, the Model 1855 Sidehammer Pocket, the Model 1865 Pocket Navy, and some Model 1862 Police Revolvers.



The same cylinder scene on a Model 1849 Colt pocket revolver with a London barrel address.



---------------------------------------------------------------



This is a book about the three most widely known cylinder Scenes engraved by Waterman Lilly Ormsby for Sam Colt, used on some of the most popular products of that illustrious gun maker. In the order in which they appeared on the historical stage they are the Texas Rangers and Comanches Fight (Rangers), the Stagecoach Holdup (Stagecoach) and the Naval Engagement (Naval) Scenes.

 

[tacfoley]

Many thanks for that. I'll amend my posts here and on the other fora.

tac

 

[drm3m]

Naval cylinder scene on a M1860 Colt Army revolver.



Naval cylinder scene on a M1851 Colt Navy revolver.

 

[rgbai]

most likely a brooklyn bridge colt

 

[trevj]

most likely a brooklyn bridge colt

Sold by the same guy that had the Bridge for sale?

Read a little about the process of making the engravings and the issue of forgeries. At one point Colt's even offered a reward for anyone that could copy the scenes well enough to escape detection, supposedly.

The engraver made a carving into a Cylinder, the outside of which was hardened. That master was then rolled across a die blank, or between two of them, under considerable pressure, which transferred the image to the plate or plates. Those plates were then hardened, so they could be used to emboss the designs on cylinders in production.

That 'master' cylinder engraving then could be used to make many of the embossing dies as required.

Neat stuff!

 

[tacfoley]

Yup, thanks to Shunka over on muzzleloadingforum.com, all of you here who posted pics, and 'green' with his kind offer of more pics of a similar pistol, it has been identified as a Schnorrenburg 'Brooklyn Bridge' Colt copy.

these are Schnorrenberg Colt copies, manufactured after 1880, without license
they are generally knonw as "Brooklyn Bridge Colts"

https://ostrich-san.livejournal.com/11376814.html

http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies s/a schnorrenberg gb.htm

https://www.hermann-historica.de/en/l/68407/belgischer_colt_...

https://www.hermann-historica.de/en/l/68408/belgischer_colt_...

http://decimal1.########.com/2017/02/1851-colt-navy-brevetes...

hope this help

shunka

tac

 

[drm3m]

These are the pages in Swayze's book that refer to this variation.

 

[tacfoley]

Great stuff - many thanks!!

tac

 

[green]

In "Colonel Colt London" Rosa it mentions that Colt's London agent tried to get Colt to make more M1851s in the late 1870s due to the demand in the Middle East. Colt refused so it appears that others stepped in.