Update fixing a wrist on a Savage 219...now a need to...not a want to

tokguy

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
93   0   0
Location
Buffalo Republic
It's my Grandfathers gun. Was a 22 Hornet ( still is I suppose) but I picked up a 30-30 bbl. Cool, right?
But 30-30 is actually a tad lively in such a light rifle. Being that it does have sentimental value, I don't want the wrist to crack like most Old S x S shotguns do.
Was thinking about a pre-emptive move by Crossbolting the wrist. But it's so much nicer when done right.
And I though there was something bugging me... pulled it out of the safe...
kdHFGoRh.jpg


Any suggestions are welcome.
Regards
Tokguy
 
Last edited:
Having never done such a thing, another thought. I had read old time elephant poachers (or maybe only one of them) would tightly wrap green elephant ear skin around their stock's wrist - apparently shrunk as it dried - became very hard - was their (or his) version of trying to create a reinforce at what would be the "weakest" section of the stock. I am sure, like here, that green elephant ear skin is sort of in short supply, but maybe the thought might help?? I am also sure that I had read the No. 1 rifles, perhaps in India (?) were wrapped tightly in wire - to reinforce the wood for using a grenade launcher or similar - again, a thought??

I had bought a couple "stock repair kits" from Brownells - so, brass threaded rods - about a dozen each package - seemed that smaller size was a 6-48 thread and larger size was an 8-40 thread - that each came with a drill bit. Their instructions talk about using their Acraglas epoxy first, into the hole - I tried several times - seems as if the drill is sized to the minor diameter of the threaded pins - so epoxy seems to just get pushed out as the pin is screwed in - so is really a mechanical fastener, I think - not an epoxied one. I see similar threaded pins used between trigger and magazine mortice in the P14 and M1917 rifles - so I presume that they "work". My concern would be that a cross bolt has to have wood material removed (for the shank), then the cross bolt would have to have large flat heads to press the wood stock sides together, to even offset the amount of wood removed? Just an old guy in the bush, wondering how I would approach the problem - take it as worth what you paid for it...
 
Last edited:
Oh, there is a few wrapped in Brass Wire around here already. Trying for that 'Ounce of Prevention' thing so GP Vern's prized rifle doesn't join the cripple group LoL.
Thanks as well
 
How about the Canadian equivalent of " green elephants ear" which would be babiche. Wet thoroughly, wrap tightly and allow to dry. You may have to scrape it to thin it before using.
 
The maker didn't reinforce .30-30 stocks, they didn't see the need.
Done very carefully and professionally, wouldn't look bad. You see some quality European shotguns with factory cross bolts. Even Ross sporting rifles had them, forward of the trigger guard.
I have made reinforcing pins by clamping a piece of brazing rod in an electric drill, and spinning it through a die to thread it full length. Epoxy it into a snug fitting hole. All you see is a small brass spot.
Epoxy bedding the stock might also be an option. Make sure the recoil shoulders are in full contact to absorb the shock. Wouldn't show on the outside.
 
The maker didn't reinforce .30-30 stocks, they didn't see the need.
Done very carefully and professionally, wouldn't look bad. You see some quality European shotguns with factory cross bolts. Even Ross sporting rifles had them, forward of the trigger guard.
I have made reinforcing pins by clamping a piece of brazing rod in an electric drill, and spinning it through a die to thread it full length. Epoxy it into a snug fitting hole. All you see is a small brass spot.
Epoxy bedding the stock might also be an option. Make sure the recoil shoulders are in full contact to absorb the shock. Wouldn't show on the outside.

I like the Epoxy idea. And yes the 30-30 isn't a stout round... I'm more concerned about the age. The Wood is probably 60 years old... maybe not the toughest anymore.
 
You can take a 1/2 inch drill and drill inside the inletting down though the center of the grip stopping short of of exiting... then a hardwood dowel (loose fit) can be slowly pushed into the epoxy filled hole with the excess epoxy cleaned up... then glass bed the stock to the action. A proper fit of the stock to the action is important to prevent the stock splitting with age and use.
 
Last edited:
I have a 219 . I've been shooting it for quite a few years with no cracking issues , but I understand your concerns . I epoxy bedded the the shoulders of the stock just as tiriaq describes , it actually improved the accuracy a bit . Even if you do install a cross bolt , I would still bed the stock this way , just to help make the rifle a more consistent shooter . By the way , my 219 is an accurate rifle as long as I don't rest the fore-end on the sandbags when shooting off the bench , I hold the fore-end and rest my hand on the sandbag instead . My 219 has become a favourite over the years , it won't impress your friends , but the deer don't seem to mind lol . Good luck with yours .
 
I've "fixed" a few Winchester 1897 butt stocks. Probably resurrected is a better description. I watched a few videos on the subject, for hints and warnings.

There is an expression, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Your 219 stock is not broken or cracked, so nothing to fix. However, anything that you can do to prevent cracking or failure is a good idea.

I threaded brass welding rod (brazing rod) threaded it across the cracks. Unless you can predict where the crack may start, it may not be that effective, but it will not crack across the brass rod. You mentioned cross bolting, but I think you were referring to "pinning". Pinning was a standard procedure for military military armourers. The process is simple, but does take a bit of patience, and some planning.

isOi2bM.jpg


This was a pretty much scrap 1897 that I resurrected. The list or repairs was long, but if you look at the wrist, that is the pin I used to stabilize a crack. The point I'm trying to make is that pinning is not an invisible fix, it is visible. Making an invisible reinforcement is challenging, not much wood to work with.

The real killer on this is having a loose retaining bolt and/or oil soaked wood. You haven't posted a picture so it's hard to know what you are working with. One of the previous posters described a good method for reinforcing the wrist on a bolt action rifle, which of course is not applicable because the retaining bolt runs though the middle of the butt stock. If you want advice on an issue, posting a detailed picture(s) is a good idea.

Larry Potterfield has a few good videos, but my favorite is Anvil, mostly for his dry wit and his willingness to follow Alice down the rabbit hole. Acetone does a good job of removing soaked in oil. Tung oil is a tough finish and if you top it with a bit of Tru-oil, it will give you a decent finish. This is a down and dirty, lazy man stock finish, but nearly the equivalent to a hand rubbed linseed finish. Most purists will scowl at the job, but if you use varnish, most purists will have a full blown seizure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAMspI1BeyI&ab_channel=MidwayUSA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO-CoUTmD5A&ab_channel=MarkNovak

The above links are just to show what is out there in You Tube land, enjoy.

You can go to http://www.ktgunsmith.com/win97.htm for the full story, here is the part on pinning.

I'll quote:

Repairing Butt Stock

The butt stock was cracked on both sides of the wrist so I decided to try my hand at repairing the butt stock. I took a tapered wooden plug and forced it into the round opening at the front of the wrist to open the cracks just a little; about the thickness of a business card. I mixed some JB Weld epoxy and forced it into the cracks with the edge of a business card. I removed the plug and clamped the wrist to hold it tightly closed. As the epoxy was forced out of the crack I wiped off the excess.

it5z25L.png


Since the stock was cracked in two places I wanted to install two reinforcing pins to keep the crack from spreading. I threaded a piece of 1/16” brass rod with a 4-32 tap. I drilled a hole with a #44 drill bit from the top of the wrist through each crack.

QYYlU9T.png


I cut enough threaded rod so it would fit into the hole I drilled, and into the chuck of my drill. I coated the threads with epoxy and used the slow speed of my drill to screw the pin into the hole. I removed the pin from the chuck and cut it flush with the stock. I filed the end of the pin so it was flush with the stock.

fRcze6E.png


Many military surplus stocks are pinned in this manner. I could have cut each pin short, cut a notch in the end, screwed it below the surface of the stock, then filled the hole with epoxy and wood dust to completely cover it up, but I like the fact that the pins are visible. All of my shooting friends tell me this gives the gun character, and I got to keep the 100-year old stock.

Caveat: I followed the methodology, but used different sized rod, threading dies and drill bit sizes.
 
Last edited:
What is the old saying "IF IT AINT BROKE DONT FIX IT"
I would just bed it and make sure your stock bolt is tight .A loose sock bolt is the reason for cracking in 99% of the cases ,The other cases involve using it as a club.The 12 gauge barrel kicks a hell of a lot more than the 30-30 and it is not a common failure.
 
Its not broken, so why try and fix it? If you did the work and then went to sell the firearm, your preventative measure might be seen as some as a decrease in value due to the stock modification, not as an improvement.
 
Its not broken, so why try and fix it? If you did the work and then went to sell the firearm, your preventative measure might be seen as some as a decrease in value due to the stock modification, not as an improvement.

Perhaps you missed that part... it was my grandfathers prized rifle. Resale is not an option that I would entertain...who sells their GF's prized rifle?
 
Clean it ...extremely clean actone...etc... and epoxy it, with a good quality epoxy. I use to have a plastic tape, that was about an inch wide, you wrap it around the wrist repair area, after epoxying the crack full. And then use a hair dryer, to shrink the tape down tight. Let the epoxy dry for 24 hours , take the tape off and sand, the top coat of any epoxy off , I have taken the tape off , while the material is still a little wet and clean up with actone before it fully dries, but I think the tape Shrinking in , reallly help with the bonding process.
Hope that helps..
Cheers
Brian
 
Perhaps you missed that part... it was my grandfathers prized rifle. Resale is not an option that I would entertain...who sells their GF's prized rifle?

You would be amaze .... Ive bought rifles that had been “in the family “ for decades!!! SO WHO DOES THAT! I here ya...not me! I still have my 22 Cooey model 39 , with the homemade cherry stock that one of my father’s friends made for it, I was 6 years old , that’s when I got my first” real” rifle...yes we had BB guns and pellet guns, but this was my first “big gun” my second was a Cooey 84 , 12 gauge single shot ( burnt in a house fire) or I’d still have it too!
That little girl you have would be beautiful in 22 hornet! 30-30 is just a thumper! Lol I know...I know.... hammer away! Lol
Cheers
Brian
FYI... I’ll be 51 this November...
 
You would be amaze .... Ive bought rifles that had been “in the family “ for decades!!! SO WHO DOES THAT! I here ya...not me! I still have my 22 Cooey model 39 , with the homemade cherry stock that one of my father’s friends made for it, I was 6 years old , that’s when I got my first” real” rifle...yes we had BB guns and pellet guns, but this was my first “big gun” my second was a Cooey 84 , 12 gauge single shot ( burnt in a house fire) or I’d still have it too!
That little girl you have would be beautiful in 22 hornet! 30-30 is just a thumper! Lol I know...I know.... hammer away! Lol
Cheers
Brian
FYI... I’ll be 51 this November...

Thanks friend. My GF used to tease my father ( FIL / SIL ) that his 22 Hornet was better than Dad's 'thuty thuty'
Which it is not of course.
Perhaps it'll be ready for a Stalk by deer season with everyone's help.
Regards Tokguy
If I get to it... I'll post some pictures... but seeding is gonna start any day now... might get put off for a bit.
 
Now that I see it is cracked .DO NOT USE EPOXY TO REPAIR A CRACKED GUN STOCK!Use cyanoacrylate from a woodworking shop .Get the thin stuff .Take off the stock clean with brake cleaner ,let it dry. Force the crack open gently than apply glue to crack and squeeze the crack together with a clamp or rubber tube .Than when dry use a dremel and with a small bur cut a vertical slot in the affected area so you can insert a piece of small wood screw and epoxy and bed it to the receiver.That way you have a blind cross bolt,and a virtually invisible repair .
The reason for using cyanoacrylate is that it will go into the pores of the wood to bond together so you do not need a glue joint like you do with epoxy .If you clamp epoxy together to tight you starve the joint and it loses its strength.That is why on a epoxy repaired stock you can see the joint ,sticks out like a sore thumb.
 
Last edited:
I believe that stock has been sanded down (too much - leaving the metal proud) and refinished... and the crack is not in the wrist of the stock but rather a split up and down in the right side. Do what the above post says and then glass bed the front of the stock to the action. That crack could have been caused by a loose stock bolt and age.
 
Now that I see it is cracked .DO NOT USE EPOXY TO REPAIR A CRACKED GUN STOCK!Use cyanoacrylate from a woodworking shop .Get the thin stuff .Take off the stock clean with brake cleaner ,let it dry. Force the crack open gently than apply glue to crack and squeeze the crack together with a clamp or rubber tube .Than when dry use a dremel and with a small bur cut a vertical slot in the affected area so you can insert a piece of small wood screw and epoxy and bed it to the receiver.That way you have a blind cross bolt,and a virtually invisible repair .
The reason for using cyanoacrylate is that it will go into the pores of the wood to bond together so you do not need a glue joint like you do with epoxy .If you clamp epoxy together to tight you starve the joint and it loses its strength.That is why on a epoxy repaired stock you can see the joint ,sticks out like a sore thumb.

Interweb says that cyanoacrylate is just crazy glue. If that is so...the repair just got pretty easy. I think I have some brass screws in my mess as well.
Thanks for the help... I tend to be a Wood Butcher without guidance.
 
Crazy glue is the same but really thick .You can get three different consistencies thin,medium and thick.There is also a gel .You want thin or medium.Be careful the thin stuff travels,it will actually seek out the crack.Crazy glue won't do that,too thick.
 
Back
Top Bottom