UPDATE: PICTURES need info on value and what to watch for, No4Mk1 (T)! help :)

louthepou

louthepou

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Hi guys, I may have found a No4 (T) with chest and scope, and figuring out its value is difficult. Anyone has sold one recently?

This is probably one of my few chances at getting one of my holy grails.

This one's used; appears to be non-matching numbers though. (scope number not matching rifle's).

Any tip to help me figure out its value will be greatly appreciated. I will be going out to see and inspect it later this afternoon. I have seen many Lee Enfields but this will be the first time I inspect a (T) in person.

Lou
 
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Markings and how it is put together are everything.

A Brit T should have the scope number on the top of the wrist, S51 marking under it both on the wood. It should be marked TR on the butt socket and T on the receiver flat by the model designation. I believe LB rifles could be marked differently, because of the different manner in which they were selected.

Pads should be soldered in place on a machined flat. The screw shafts should be finished off flush in the bolt way.

There are a few other inspector marks etc that I can't think of, but basically if it feels right it is. You've handled more restored rifles than anyone so you should be good to go there! Have fun Lou, and please post pics if you get it!
 
Bracket numbered to the rifle is more important than scope but it sounds like it's not matching. Be aware that a non-matching bracket may or may not be adequately collimated to the rifle bore. I got lucky and my non-matching example is perfect. With all the reading and study I did prior to buying my two T's I ended up believing that the most important things to look for are the D6E examiners stamp on the left rear flat (although it may be absent on some early '43's which also need not have the serif T on the left body) and extremely good installlation of the front pad. On every real one I've seen in person or in photos that front pad shows no detectable gap between itself and the top edge of the body. If the pad has not been fooled with the screw ends are invariably almost invisible inside the body. H & H did very, very good work! There are some pretty serious attempts at fakery out there- the best one I've seen (and briefly owned before returning it) had very convincing "TR" on left cheek, "S" on cutoff boss, etc. It was revealed as a fake by finding a Maltby refurb stamp under the front pad! Good luck with the one you're looking at but don't be in too much of a rush as genuine ones do come up on the EE fairly frequently. For a mismatch, unless there's some particularly appealing characteristics I wouldn't go much above $4000.00.

milsurpo
 
Didn't Marstar's owner sell one for 10K in the last year or so? Pricey kit considering how their value has climbed!

Cheers
Jay
 
So typically a Brit (T) should have the same number on the scope and the rifle - this one doesn't. I'll see if I can negotiate a decent price. Where else should matching numbers be found?
 
Lou: The bracket should have the rifle serial #, the scope serial should be on the top of buttstock. If you could take off the butt it would be serialed to the rifle. It would be good to have the forend numbered to the rifle keeping in mind it might well be a replacement forend post FTR. One consideration would be to verify that the bracket is an original as opposed to recent repro. There are manufacturer codes on many of the originals. There are some good repros made for Roger Payne that are, apparently, as good as the original. An original bracket by itself is pretty valuable so verifying it's origin is important to valuation of the package. Have a good look through the scope itself and check that the adjusting knobs move freely. If you need to get that overhauled it'll cost. Sometimes sellers will claim their scope to have recently been refurbed by one or another of the known experts and sometimes it's actually true!

milsurpo
 
This one sold for $500 just recently (2015) at a gun show, no chest though -

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The Marstar gun was a mint condition Longbranch T 90l with a brit scope, matching can and a mismatched chest. It sold for $8700 cdn.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1174133-Attic-find/page3?highlight=attic+find

I also bought an all matched Brit T ( scope ) without a scope tin or chest for $4700 in late 2013. It is also pictured in the thread above.

Lots of these show up on gunbroker in the US and in the various auctions that you can find via proxibid.

I have imported an all matching Longbranch T with minor issues from Irunguns ( they kept insisting that the rifle was brit, so they charged me duty on a cdn gun :(

I am just importing an early 1941 Brit T via Prophet River, so that seems to be going more smoothly.

Jawes
 
Ok, I have more info and (poor, cell phone) pics. Please accept my apologies for the poor quality, I will not forget to bring my camera tomorrow, I will be there again. I will try to describe as much as possible here what should be seen...

Numbers are mismatched: The bolt matches the receiver, that's about it. The forend, top of buttstock, scope and scope mount have mismatched numbers. The label in the scope box are also mismatched.

The buttstock has the "S51" on the bottom face. The receiver has a "TR" under the serial number on the receiver's butt socket (near the trigger guard screw, barely visible in one of the pictures below), and the "S" on the cutoff boss. There is a somewhat poorly stamped "T" on the left side of the receiver, next to the ejector screw (on the screw's left side), which is the correct font (Serif) (this one also barely visible in one of my pictures).

There is no visible information on the left flat of the receiver aside from the Serif "T", and none on the scope mounting bases (which seem to be very well mounted).

The scope bracket has two inspection marks (one is the broad arrow), show machining marks (look "rough" in a way) and have matched numbers for each half "ring" (not sure how to call these).

Sadly the scope windage seems to be stuck; the elevation is mooving freely and works.

So, aside from the fact that it's a "collection of parts", anything worth being cautious about its authenticity?

Again many thanks for all your very valuable help! And I know your eyes will bleed looking at out-of-focus pics, sorry about that, I promise better pics tomorrow.

Lou








 
It certainly appears real Lou, as far as can be seen. Thanks for the pics!

If you can get it for 3K or less....

A total mismatch of correct parts is worth a lot less than a matching set of course. But it's still a real T.

You could ask Wheaty if he has time to free up the scope adjustments, he's very good at it.
 
Hi Lou,

Rifle looks very familiar. Scope and metal case is legit and not far off the number stamped on the top of the butt socket. Rifle looks good. Well worth $3K if that's the asking price. The mismatch scope will have little impact on the price. I know guys may think otherwise however it's quite common to run into this. I would look at the bore, crown and originality of the forearm. If these are original and to standard you would have a great shooter. Can always pick up a transit chest...seen a few for sale around the $500 mark.

Good luck with your negotiations,

Ron
 
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