UPDATE - Response from Berger - Source for Reloading Data on Berger 185 Juggernauts

Devlin

Devlin

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Evening gang,

I have a lot of Berger Juggernauts 185gr and am having some trouble finding load data in the Lyman, and Hornady books for this bullet. Tried to purchase the Berger manual online and they won't ship it to Canada (have emailed Berger asking for data) a few Canadian dealers have the book as an item they sell but none in stock.

I am running Varget as the powder and CCI BR2 primers, Lapua brass. I imagine I need to be in the 39 - 43 grain range with 2.800 COAL length but I would like to validate that with manufacturers data before we start pouring powder for these.

Anyone know of an alternate source for this info or a place that has the books available for purchase here in Canada?
 
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UPDATE from Berger & Some Questions

An interesting update got a few contacts from members here who were able to pass along the load data, while searching a few other forums I found that if you email Berger they will send you the specific load data techsupport@bergerbullets.com is the address.

Picture below of what Berger sent me, this is where a bit of confusion starts for me while I was searching saw a lot of other posts with load recipes for the 185 Grain Juggernaut that were way over the powder levels outlined in the picture below some guys pushing as much as 43-44 grains of Varget with the 185 Juggernauts.

This was in a precision forum as an example (amongst others): http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/308-win-and-berger-185gr-juggernauts.3798260/

HUGE DISCLAIMER: No I don't believe everything written on the internet, not would I take load data from an internet forum without working up a load gradually.

The question I have is was the Berger book written by lawyers? Their max load for varget as seen below is 41.6 which is a ways off from 44 grains. My understanding is Bryan Litz is one of the key contributors to the book and he's greatly respected in the industry. Can any of you guys with more experience shed some light on whether these guys pushing 44 grains are playing with fire or is the book too conservative in its load data?


 
every reloading manual was proofread by lawyers, buy a chronograph and learn to read pressure signs.....work up slowly and only go as far as your comfortable with
 
I have playing with the .30 cal. 185gr. Juggernaut Target with Varget powder.
I have tested 43.5, 44.0, 44.5, and 45.0 grs.
I also moly coated my Juggernauts.
No signs of over pressure.
The 44.5 (2919 fps) and 45.0 gr. (2977 fps) load seems to be the ones my rifle likes.However I am going re-chrony these two load over a Magneto Speed Chrony in the near future as I think my Old School Shooting Chrony may not be reading correctly.
Barrel is a 26.5" 1 in 11.3" twist McPhee barrel.
I have been told that some F-Class competitors are loading 46.0 grs, but their Lapua brass is toast after one firing (They are sponsored by Lapua apparently).
 
They are telling you that at 41.6gr their fill ratio is 102% therefore a compressed load.
It is obvious that they cannot be using a cartridge with the same case volume as the person loading 44.6 gr of the same powder.

I have developed a load for a 180gr SMK that is far over published data. I have no overpressure signs such as a stiff bolt lift, flattened primers, ejector marks etc.
I don't use it for the most part simply because I do not need that much energy and I don't want to accelerate throat erosion.
 
Skullboy said:
I have playing with the .30 cal. 185gr. Juggernaut Target with Varget powder.
I have tested 43.5, 44.0, 44.5, and 45.0 grs.
I also moly coated my Juggernauts.
No signs of over pressure.
The 44.5 (2919 fps) and 45.0 gr. (2977 fps) load seems to be the ones my rifle likes.However I am going re-chrony these two load over a Magneto Speed Chrony in the near future as I think my Old School Shooting Chrony may not be reading correctly.
Barrel is a 26.5" 1 in 11.3" twist McPhee barrel.
I have been told that some F-Class competitors are loading 46.0 grs, but their Lapua brass is toast after one firing (They are sponsored by Lapua apparently).
Click to expand...

Wow those are some stellar velocity for the Jugg. You're probably getting 150-200fps faster than most 30" barrels. With a full case of N150 from a 32" I'm getting some where around (estimating haven't done a final chrony test) 2725-2750ish. Mind you my freebore is not as long as some others so I pretty much seat BT at the case neck and shoulder junction.

Berger Reloading manual is very conservative IMO.
 
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There's a bit of a difference between what's safe and achievable in a factory rifle(which is what reloading data is for), and a custom rifle designed for a certain bullet. There's ways barrels and chambers can be adjusted to get more speed and less pressure.
Most pushing the 185's hard are using Lapua Palma brass and CCI450's or such to get brass life.


skullboy, I'd be surprised if your chrony was accurate at those numbers... does seem about 200fps high. Will be interesting to see what the magneto speed says. Highest speed I'd seen on chrono with 185's was around 2850, higher load, longer barrel than yours.

As usual data is a starting point and people should very carefully adjust for their needs/rifles/weather. Safety glasses help.
 
I will add to my comment earlier. Before they put out their manual I emailed them about 30-06 data for the 168gr vld with h4350. Their min is 50 and max is 55.8. Pretty much every other data source with that powder and bullet weight puts the max around 58+
 
hometownhero said:
I will add to my comment earlier. Before they put out their manual I emailed them about 30-06 data for the 168gr vld with h4350. Their min is 50 and max is 55.8. Pretty much every other data source with that powder and bullet weight puts the max around 58+
Click to expand...


This is what I'm finding as well almost all other sources of load data are noticeably higher when it comes to powder measures for a given bullet when compared to the Berger manual, I'm going to start low and work my way up till I find a charge that works well with no pressure signs. Appreciate all the responses, learned a lot in this thread and had not encountered a compressed load before so had to do some googling on that to learn what it was all about.
 
A compressed load is nothing more then powder being pushed down the case by a bullet. When you have a bulky powder it will happen usually nothing to worry about. The one powder that can not be compressed is trailboss. I use it in rifle loads.
 
I use almost exactly this recipe of components with the exception of CCI200 primers instead of the BR-2. I load 40.6 grains of Varget with an average velocity of 2550fps from a 24" barrel. That's not a compressed load for my seating depth but there is very little room left in the case. No pressure signs either.
 
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