UPDATE: Rossi Ranch Hand Mares Leg

44 mag, I think maybe i should have gone to the 45?? Although the 44 may be more readily available.

If you handload, there's not much difference. If you don't, then the 44 is the more powerful cartridge generally.

Few bears will stand up to a 240 grain bullet out of the 44 mag. I was planning to use a load of about 23.5 grains h110 (work up to it of course) with a hornady xtp bullet as my hunting load out of my 16 inch carbine and i'd expect it to do well in the mare's leg as well. However - one of the posters here said that they've actually got slightly better results from lil'gun using 240 grain bullets in longer barrels.

We'll have to see how they test out. But you should be able to get somewhere around 1600 fps and change out of the mare's leg with a 240 grain bullet i think, and that's going to ruin any bear's day.
 
44 mag, I think maybe i should have gone to the 45?? Although the 44 may be more readily available.

If you handload, a hot 45 COlt will push a bigger bullet faster than a 44 Magnum. If you use factory ammo, go for 44 Magnum.

I would load 300 gr Hornady XTP MAG bullets for a jacketed bullet, and hard cast 300 or 325gr bullets with a flat meplat for cast bullets.

I get 1600-1700fps with a 300 gr bullet in my 16" barrel Trapper 45 Colt. Lets say we lose 100 or even 200fps with 4" less barrel, still should give 1400-1500fps in a 12" barrel.
 
shortening the stock

anyone know if there is a LEGAL reason why I could not cut some wood off the stock?

ie:
from this -
10_1.jpg


to this -
10_1b.jpg
 
Just some quick unsubstantiated thoughts, but isn't ours going to be exactly minimum OAL? so chopping it would drop it back under the OAL?


Or, if ours is under, wasn't it allowed due to a very specific reason that chopping it would void?


I'm not basing that on anything other than the vague conclusions I've reached. Personally I'd leave it be.
 
anyone know if there is a LEGAL reason why I could not cut some wood off the stock?

It is illegal to alter a firearm such that it's less than about 26 inches. It is ONLY allowed if it comes from the manufacturer that way. These are 24 inches already. So by shortening the stock you'd be altering the gun and making it a prohib.
 
It is illegal to alter a firearm such that it's less than about 26 inches. It is ONLY allowed if it comes from the manufacturer that way. These are 24 inches already. So by shortening the stock you'd be altering the gun and making it a prohib.

Yes, but it is already UNDER the basic 26 inch length

Doesn't it depend on how they define this gun? ie: a SPECIFIC length

I know I could not alter the barrel length, but as it is already in the under-26-inch zone, cutting the stock seems possible
 
no you CANNOT shorten this rifle. it is legal under 24 inches ONLY BECAUSE IT CAME THAT WAY FROM THE FACTORY.

MODIFICATION IS IMPROSSIBRU!
 
The only reason it's ok at under 26" is because it comes that way from the manufacturer.
Any mod to the stock would have to make it over 26"..... even a slim butt pad might not be acceptable by our ridiculous laws!
Just leave it as is or use a full stock.
 
Yes, but it is already UNDER the basic 26 inch length

Doesn't it depend on how they define this gun? ie: a SPECIFIC length

Once again - the law says ALTERING the gun - changing it - so that it is below 26 inches when you are finished makes the gun prohib.

Technically as mentioned even ADDING length but still coming in under 26 inches would be illegal
 
Once again - the law says ALTERING the gun - changing it - so that it is below 26 inches when you are finished makes the gun prohib.

Technically as mentioned even ADDING length but still coming in under 26 inches would be illegal

I pride myself on being able to decipher some sort of logical way to proceed out of our laws, but this one is really trying my abilities.

To try to logic this one out - adding a slip on buttpad wouldn't permanently alter the length... or would it... I would think not since it could easily be undone without tools.

Adding a new full length butt stock.... it isn't altering the current wood on the gun, and does make it over 26 inch OAL... but can't be undone without tools... even if the tool is just a screw driver and a screw.

Adding an attachment that could be added and removed without tools and would leave the gun at the exact same OAL when not attached, but over 26 inches when attached..... how do you deal with that one??? IE A slip fit MASSIVE butt pad :D :p


**** In final conclusion, depending on the wording of the law, I suppose any dickery with the gun would have to leave it at identical length when under the 26 inch OAL, but dickery resulting in an over 26 inch OAL should be ok.... depending on how the wording is phrased...
 
To try to logic this one out - adding a slip on buttpad wouldn't permanently alter the length... or would it... I would think not since it could easily be undone without tools.

That'd be a no - as you say not permanent. And if you had a 26 inch rifle, took the buttpad off and then put the slip on in it's place even tho the length was now the same it would be prohib'd :)

Adding a new full length butt stock.... it isn't altering the current wood on the gun, and does make it over 26 inch OAL... but can't be undone without tools... even if the tool is just a screw driver and a screw.

Replacing a part with another factory part isn't considered to be alteration. I asked the cfc about that once. You are not 'altering' a gun by putting a factory part on it, especially if it returns it to it's original factory form.

Otherwise, just replacing a broken stock would constitute 'alteration'.
Adding an attachment that could be added and removed without tools and would leave the gun at the exact same OAL when not attached, but over 26 inches when attached..... how do you deal with that one??? IE A slip fit MASSIVE butt pad

It's removable - it's not altering the gun. No more than simply duct taping a stick that pointed forward of the barrel would be 'altering' :) (we could get around all kind of length restrictions doing that :) )

You start to get a little 'grey' when you get into things that actually attach, but even there the cfc has always had a policy that it has to be 'permanently' attached. For example - they will consider a muzzle break as part of the length of a barrel, as long as it's welded on or otherwise 'permanently' attached to the barrel. But - they are fickle in their ways :)

Now - the law does mention that it cannot be reduced by 'telescoping or folding' - so you wouldn't want anything that could do that.

But imagine you made a 'clip' on the short stock of the ranch hand - and were able to attach a metal rod that came back to another base plate for the purposes of quickly turning it into a full length carbine. It would just pop off, so is it an 'alteration changing the length of the gun? I think it's safe to say no.

What if you put a threaded hole into the rather useless butt plate of the ranch hand so that you could screw such a device on and off? Well.... still seems like no. It doesn't telescope or fold or the like.

Put a device that folded out of the way tho... now it's a prohib.

I suppose if a guy was so inclined it wouldn't be hard to drill a screw in hole on the back of the stock such that you could attach a short 'extension' that would come all the way back to your shoulder with a proper recoil pad mounted, and thus turn the gun from a micro-rifle into a proper carbine when necessary. It just wouldn't be 'instant' like a folder.
 
Wally, just design a good dovetail or whatever adapter for the stock extension and then we can take it from there.....:D

The fact that adding a bit of length or keeping it the same but adding some hardware to allow an extension to attach.detach may be an issue just shows the idiocy or the law..... this could be added to the list of anyone or any organization looking to making improvements to our gun laws by pointing out the stupidity of current legislation! We just need to make sure that shooters are involved in drafting sensible changes and not some bureaucrat!
 
I think we are lucky to have these rifles coming in as nonrestricted.
Might be a lot of trouble shortening the stock and cant really see how it would really help anyways.
I was surprised at their classification having 24 inches overall length!
Those buying this thing to shoot as a pistol/rifle should enjoy it for what it is.
I'm sure they will still be lots of fun to shoot!
 
I think each rifle should come with a letter from the RCMP or the FRT database saying it's legal. I can imagine some cops having a hard time understanding the law.
 
I wouldn't like having to carry a letter from anyone for my mares leg.
Bad enough with the registration card ( I would love to kick the dummy that came up with those cards right in the nuts)
 
I think each rifle should come with a letter from the RCMP or the FRT database saying it's legal. I can imagine some cops having a hard time understanding the law.

If you are worried, carry your certificate showing non restricted and a photocopy of the Ranch Hand's manufactured specs.

You may run into some official know it all(most) but you will prevail in the end so I don't think it's worth rocking the boat in this case.
 
No worries - pretty sure most CGN'ers are aware of the bureaucratic hassles that importers have to deal with getting guns into the country!
 
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