Upgrading Scope, S&B or Leupold Mk6?

MPower

MPower

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
48   0   0
Location
Vancouver
I will soon upgrade my current scope with something a little "higher grade" and I need your advice/opinion to make my purchase. Before I tell you my options, I'll give you guys a rundown of my current setup.

First of all, it's an AR15 platform, so needless to say, it's restricted to range time only punching paper. I've put together an SPR that I'm quite fond of. I currently have on it a Bushnell Elite Tactical 4.5-30x50. I purchased it here on the EE about 2 years ago as a starter scope. It's a decent scope. Glass is fine considering the price I paid. The magnification range is quite high (about 6.6 times), although I never use it above 20x. Between 20x-30x zoom, I feel the scope/glass quality really drops off. But like I said, I'm only punching paper at the range, so my usable range is usually 10x-16x.

What I'm looking for is a tactical scope that would compliment the look of my SPR and have glass that will stay crystal clear from lowest power to max zoom power and be able to track perfectly. I may eventually move up to an AR10 platform, LMT MWS or KAC SR25 sometime in the distant future, so my purchase must also match that as well, hence the "higher grade". Weight is not an issue and my budget is around $2500 give or take.

I've narrowed it down to 2 scopes, but feel free to give me any suggestions along with pros & cons.

Leupold Mk6 3-18x44
-I've read on other forums that the glass is an upgrade over the Mk4 scopes
-mag range is in my sweet spot
-compact design, around 12 inches in length, 44mm objective
-good rep for a quality scope
-34mm main tube for toughness
-front focal plane, mil turrets with mil reticle

Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-20x50
-glass should be way better than my Bushnell Elite Tactical
-mag range is also in my sweet spot
-compact for a S&B, little longer that their 3-12 and shorter than their 4-16
-great rep for a quality scope, some would argue the best?
-34mm main tube for toughness
-front focal plane, mil turrets with mil reticle
-illuminated reticle

The Leupold is the more compact of the two, may suit my SPR more than the S&B and is around my budget ( PD has them on their site for $2700 ).

The S&B is larger of the two (15 inches), but is compact for a 20x scope, but also may not suit the look of my SPR and it has a 50mm eyepiece! Not sure how that's gonna look mounted on an AR15! It is also more expensive than my budget ( Wolverine has them on their site for $3100 ).

Please take the time to comment as your opinion/advice will be very much appreciated. Thank you.
 
Last edited:
Either one would suit your need, personally on an spr build less size and weight is good, pretty hard to beat s&b quality for glass and 3-20 is the most versatile in my opinion. Can't really go wrong with either so it really comes down to what you want and what you can afford. Personally I would pony up extra dough for s&b.
 
If you're going to drop S&B kind of money you really ought to check out the USO site. USO glass quality, ruggedness and warranty are without peer and, unlike S&B, USO can be custom built and are made in North America.
 
The USMC chose the 3-12x50 PMII for their M40A3 and M82 rifles and then last year the 5-25x56 PMII was chosen as the Precision Sniper Rifle scope for the USMC, Navy, Air Force and Army.

Seems like pretty high praise to me. I'd go with the S&B.
 
USO has a 3.8-22 that you may also be interested in.

Out of your 2 choices though, I wouldn't even look at the Leupold. S&B all the way, the two scopes are not in the same league.

Mark my words! If you spend $2700 on a Leupold, you will regret not spending an extra $500 to get the S&B!

And I will say "I told you so"!

Ivo
 
Tomochan said:
In my opinion there is no choice here - S+B is so far superior to Leupold that the two scopes really should not be compared.
Click to expand...

Oddly, I did compare a Mark 4 8.5-25 and a S&B 5-25 a couple of days ago when a young Auzzie gent went out of his way to take the wife and myself to the Darwin range.

Starting with the last of the good light, and shooting and watching til it was darkernhell I couldn't tell a darn bit of difference between the two, at least optically.

At least with Nightforce I can see a difference.
 
Dogleg said:
Oddly, I did compare a Mark 4 8.5-25 and a S&B 5-25 a couple of days ago when a young Auzzie gent went out of his way to take the wife and myself to the Darwin range.

Starting with the last of the good light, and shooting and watching til it was darkernhell I couldn't tell a darn bit of difference between the two, at least optically.

At least with Nightforce I can see a difference.
Click to expand...

Sorry, optically there is a difference, and as far as build quality there is a huge difference. Leupold is decent, but nowhere near the product S&B is.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Sorry, optically there is a difference, and as far as build quality there is a huge difference. Leupold is decent, but nowhere near the product S&B is.

TDC
Click to expand...

You should have been there to show us. We sure couldn't see what $3500 was supposed to deliver. I was looking for an excuse to buy one.
 
Thanks for all the responses fellas. Looks like not so much love for the Leupold! I know their quality has been diminished the last couple of years, but supposedly their new mk 6 and mk 8 series are a big improvement. I know there's no one here that would be able to give me a "review" on the mk6, as it just came out and chances are no one would have owned one long enough to have any factual comments. Any one know if they use ED glass?

As for the S&B, I know there's plenty of you guys that have actual experiences with them but the 3-20 is also new. Any one know if there are any differences optically between the new 3-20 versus the older 3-12 or 3-16?
 
Last edited:
MPower said:
Thanks for all the responses fellas. Looks like not so much love for the Leupold! I know their quality has been diminished the last couple of years, but supposedly their new mk 6 and mk 8 series are a big improvement. I know there's no one here that would be able to give me a "review" on the mk6, as it just came out and chances are no one would have owned one long enough to have any factual comments. Any one know if they use ED glass?

As for the S&B, I know there's plenty of you guys that have actual experiences with them but the 3-20 is also new. Any one know if there are any differences optically between the new 3-20 versus the older 3-12 or 3-16?
Click to expand...

The S&B is pretty large for AR. I had a 5-25X56 on one of my SPRs goofing around quite frankly I don't think you need the 20X for a AR . Even my 6.5Grendel doesn't "need" the 20X .

I actually prefer smaller dia obj for AR

Here is the 3-12X50 on AR

MK12Mod1-12.jpg


Keep in mind to achieve the proper eye relief, you will need to use a cantilever scope mount like the Larue SPR/M4 ( available in 34mm ) or standard rings with cantilever riser

Either method you would be suprised how much you can push and deflect down the scope due to cantilever design.

If you choose not to use a cantilever style , you will find the rings quite far back on the scope .

Using the PRI swan sleeve al la Mk12Mod0 you can mount further forward on the rail

MK12Mod0-7.jpg


I have only used Mk4 , not the Mk4 . Either way, I think that once you get into the high dollar $2500 + range, I would prefer to buy a S&B or Hensoldt

Where I see the difference with the PMII and the less expensive Nighforce and Leupold, IOR etc is in how "nice" the clicks feel. You need to play with both to really see what I am refering to. I have only look through the new 3-20 PMII and played with the knobs . Far more reasonable size than the 5-25!

I also like the fact the PMIIs can be had with MTC ( in the case of 3-20 comes with ) or double turn MRAD turrets. I love the double turns !!
 
look up and I will call rusty.

TDC said:
Sorry, optically there is a difference, and as far as build quality there is a huge difference. Leupold is decent, but nowhere near the product S&B is.

TDCHard to believe thought process,or lack thereof,sometimes.
Click to expand...
 
MPower said:
Thanks for all the responses fellas. Looks like not so much love for the Leupold! I know their quality has been diminished the last couple of years, but supposedly their new mk 6 and mk 8 series are a big improvement. I know there's no one here that would be able to give me a "review" on the mk6, as it just came out and chances are no one would have owned one long enough to have any factual comments. Any one know if they use ED glass?

As for the S&B, I know there's plenty of you guys that have actual experiences with them but the 3-20 is also new. Any one know if there are any differences optically between the new 3-20 versus the older 3-12 or 3-16?
Click to expand...

If you have the time, peruse some of the US shooting sites and see what they are saying? I owned a Leupold Mark 4 and it was a great scope.It's my understanding that Leupold has refocused itself on the US market and has improved it's service and quality. The Mark 8 CQBSS gets great marks but is over priced.

One consideration is that the Leupold and Premier Reticle scopes are serviced in NA, for the S&B product your headed overseas.
Flip Tactical Ordnance an email he has experience with all three.
 
I'd say if you're close to us come in and check out the US Optic scopes. We are now stocking a few ;)

I'll work on a pic of the 3.2-17 and the 1.8-10 on an AR

Here's one of the 1.5-6 on an AR and as you can see from the bottom pic the 5-25 might be a little big :D

373835_437368342980183_1195006742_n.jpg

205942_10151195652460086_984995635_n.jpg
 
I would seriously look at USO for an AR base, there warranty is amazing and untouchanble by any other manufacturer, they are beefy looking to match an ar rifle, available in what ever combination you want as far as mil, moa, sfp, ffp, color, reticle, etc. Check them out online.
 
TRG-42 said:
The S&B is pretty large for AR. I had a 5-25X56 on one of my SPRs goofing around quite frankly I don't think you need the 20X for a AR . Even my 6.5Grendel doesn't "need" the 20X .

I actually prefer smaller dia obj for AR

Here is the 3-12X50 on AR

MK12Mod1-12.jpg


Keep in mind to achieve the proper eye relief, you will need to use a cantilever scope mount like the Larue SPR/M4 ( available in 34mm ) or standard rings with cantilever riser

Either method you would be suprised how much you can push and deflect down the scope due to cantilever design.

If you choose not to use a cantilever style , you will find the rings quite far back on the scope .

Using the PRI swan sleeve al la Mk12Mod0 you can mount further forward on the rail

MK12Mod0-7.jpg


I have only used Mk4 , not the Mk4 . Either way, I think that once you get into the high dollar $2500 + range, I would prefer to buy a S&B or Hensoldt

Where I see the difference with the PMII and the less expensive Nighforce and Leupold, IOR etc is in how "nice" the clicks feel. You need to play with both to really see what I am refering to. I have only look through the new 3-20 PMII and played with the knobs . Far more reasonable size than the 5-25!

I also like the fact the PMIIs can be had with MTC ( in the case of 3-20 comes with ) or double turn MRAD turrets. I love the double turns !!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pictures. The size of the S&B 3-12 looks great on the AR. I too would prefer a smaller objective lens, 42 or 44 would be perfect. Too bad S&Bs don't come that small. That's why the Leupold Mk6 was so appealing to me 12" length and 44mm objective.

How was the glass on the S&B 3-20? Any improvements since it's the newest model? What did you think of the 50mm eyepiece?

I think the S&B 3-20 comes with the MTC and double turn turrets as standard. The only thing is it's 15" long!
 
TRG-42 said:
Keep in mind to achieve the proper eye relief, you will need to use a cantilever scope mount like the Larue SPR/M4 ( available in 34mm ) or standard rings with cantilever riser

Either method you would be suprised how much you can push and deflect down the scope due to cantilever design.
Click to expand...

I'm using an ADM Recon cantilever mount and I love it, top quality fit and finish and doesn't loose zero. Probably comparable to the Larue?

What do you mean by "push and deflect" when using a cantilever design?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom