upper recievers

[beltfed]

I don't want to point out every mistake people make on CGN, but Type III anodizing (again, you should have read the references I posted) is only available in CLEAR and BLACK. To get other colors, you have to do Type IIb or lesser anodizing.

CLEAR comes out really light grey to titanium/gold-ish color.

Put the military standard specification aside. It can be duplicated in whole or can be changed with little to no effect on the quality and durability of the product.

You understand that all of those specifications have a clear outline of the different chemical makeup of the anodizing involved? That chemical composition can be changed, and a colorant can be added to most - type III if used, is no different.

http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html#Type3

 

[Lee Enfield]

My Colt M16A2 upper has a purple tint to the anodizing.

 

[beltfed]

colour is also different between grades of Aluminum, and depending on the mill run, different between billet and casting.

Yes, this is true. There is no question that there are limitations to anodizing and experimentation can be a costly process...

i think i will stick the advice given by my engineer on the matter, he says your wrong... The only way for us to darken up the colour is to reduce the depth of plating.

Whatever floats your boat...

 

[hori]

They are black and i suck with the Camera........

thank you

 

[Gunnerlove]

I would agree than a 14.5" barrel with a carbine gas system probably won't perform like a 20" HBAR, but the latest guys are shooting 16" HBARs with longer mid-length gas systems.

Honestly, I have no idea whether a 20" or 16" target rifle is better - both shoot better than my abilities if properly put together.

It is the 20" as the increased velocity reduces wind drift. Drop is not an issue on a KD range it is chasing shifting wind that grinds down the score.

 

[Claven2]

Put the military standard specification aside. It can be duplicated in whole or can be changed with little to no effect on the quality and durability of the product.

You understand that all of those specifications have a clear outline of the different chemical makeup of the anodizing involved? That chemical composition can be changed, and a colorant can be added to most - type III if used, is no different.

http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html#Type3

If you change the spec it is no longer type III anodizing, is not as deep and is not as durable. It has NOTHING to do with the dye - it's the achieved surface properties that make it type III. Type III can only be done in TWO COLORS. Black and clear. It's not a cosmetic limitation, it's a limitation of the chemical process itself.

If you aren't willing to go read about the process (I listed the standards and specs and they are all on google) then stop talking like you know what you are doing because you are only demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge about the process

If you want colors other than black or clear, you have to specify type IIb or one of the other variants of the process, which while prettier, is not quite as durable.

 

[YoungGun85]

Claven2: I feel your pain. I'm an auto mechanic and every day I hear from at least one "self taught expert" customer, about how they "fixed" their cars already and how I'm just trying to make more money by selling those frivolous things. Who needs a suspension or brakes anyways?

 

[beltfed]

I've never anodized anything - and I've never claimed to know first hand knowledge other than being a Spec Writer and have written specifications...
Despite what you say I think I'll believe these folks...

The below is taken right from the Aluminum Anodizer Council's web site.

http://www.anodizing.org/Reference/reference_guide.html

TYPE III "Hard Coating"

Color will vary from light tan to black depending on alloy and thickness. Color overtones listed below may vary with the use of additives and/or the process. Can be dyed in darker colors depending on thickness. Coating PENETRATES base metal as much as builds up on the surface. The term THICKNESS includes both the buildup and penetration. Provides very hard ceramic type coating. Abrasion resistance will vary with alloy and thickness of coating. Good dielectric properties. Corrosion resistance is good, but recommend sealing in 5% dichromate solution where increased corrosion resistance is required. Where extreme abrasion resistance is required do not seal as some softening is encountered.

Type III Anodize Thickness Guide

Alloy Major Constituent (in) Maximum Thickness* Color Overtones***
1100 99.5% pure Alum. .003 Gray/Green**
2011 Copper Not recommended Not recommended
2014 Copper .001 Bronze
2017 Copper .001 Bronze
2024 Copper .0015 Bronze
3003 Manganese .002 Gray
4032 Silicon .0012 Gray
5005 Magnesium .0035 Gray/Brown
5052 Magnesium .0035 Gray/Brown
5083 Magnesium .0035 Gray/Brown
6061 Mag/Silicon .003 Dark Gray
6063 Mag/Silicon .004 Green
6105 Mag/Silicon .0035 Gray/Green

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alloy Major Constituent (in) Maximum Thickness* Color Overtones***
6262 Mag/Silicon .0025 Gray
6463 Mag/Silicon .003 Gray
7075 Zinc .004 Bronze
355 Silicon .0035 Gray
356 Silicon .0035 Gray
357 Silicon .0035 Gray
360 Silicon .0005 Gray
380 Silicon .0005 Gray
319 Silicon .0025 Light Gray
MIC-6 Silicon .0035 Dark Gray

 

[North Eastern Arms]

I've never anodized anything - and I've never claimed to know first hand knowledge other than being a Spec Writer and have written specifications...
Despite what you say I think I'll believe these folks...

Color will vary from light tan to black depending on alloy and thickness. Color overtones listed below may vary with the use of additives and/or the process. Can be dyed in darker colors depending on thickness. Coating PENETRATES base metal as much as builds up on the surface. The term THICKNESS includes both the buildup and penetration.

this is exactly what we have been saying.......

Can be dyed in darker colors depending on thickness

 

[Satain]

NO NO NO!!!
I want to see it on the NEA lower!
Besides that looks good.

Will you guy's be teaming up with Arma-Coat to provide different finishes if some one choose's?

 

[North Eastern Arms]

Lower is coming, but the monolithic and quad rails are up next.

 

[Claven2]

I thought barrels were next??

As for anyone who thinks coloured TypeIII ano is here for AR15 lowers, go join the Aero Precision page on Facebook and read through their efforts to produce a FDE anodized lower that would meet milspec hardness.

They tried for 2 years and eventually gave up because the FDE lowers they were making could not achieve milspec hardness depth and thing like pin holes would start egging out.

The made some pretty paperweights though...

And despite what some will claim, AP is a top maker in the states. They have their own discount line of lowers, but they also manufacture and brand uppers and lowers for many of the big names in the AR15 world. They also make probably the most popular aftermarket monolithic upper system south of the border.

 

[Claven2]

@NEA:

How do you like the Knight's ambi mag release? I'm guessing that like the Troy it cams off the lower and wears the ano off in that area over time?

 

[Claven2]

I just noticed Fabsports now has Spike's uppers c/w door assembly and fwd assist for a very attractive $139, if anyone is looking for a decent bargain upper. These would be at least as nice as the Aero Precision uppers, but already assembled.

 

[North Eastern Arms]

I thought barrels were next??
.

and barrels.. Right now we are trying to juggle milling capacity. Turning on the other hand is wide open and barrels are in various stages of completion. The first batch is waiting for test results on a new chrome alternative before being sent for plating.

 

[Claven2]

Well, I for one can't wait to get my mitts onto one of your 7.5's for a very thorough testing and review I also hope to evaluate it using an NEA hybrid brake to see how much flame (if any) gets thrown out the slots.

 

[beltfed]

this is exactly what we have been saying.......

...yes, and while agreeing that there are limitations to the process, I've indicated that it can be varied to acheive different results with little to no impact on the product - which was met with a flury of rebuttal with no basis.
If other companies can achieve a darker or different finish, it is clear proof it can be done.
Maybe they need to change the specification while still meeting or exceeding a standard, but it's do-able.

Also, where or who indicated we were talking only about NEA's work?
Or for that matter, type III anodizing?

 

[Longshot]

I would agree than a 14.5" barrel with a carbine gas system probably won't perform like a 20" HBAR, but the latest guys are shooting 16" HBARs with longer mid-length gas systems.

Are these by chance the same "latest guys" that can't score over 550 in an SR match?

 

[SwL_Wildcat]

If you buy ANY milspec upper, regardless of what some will say, it will last almost forever if maintained. In an AR15 the upper only serves as an optics mount, something to screw the barrel to, and a guide channel for the BCG. At the moment of firing, the bolt is locked directly to the barrel extension and if your upper was made in spec out of 7075-T6 aluminum and Type 3 hard coat anodized, it frankly will not matter who made it, whether it started as a forging or a billet or any of the other KoolAid stuff.

IF (and I doubt this applied to you) you shoot a lot of full-auto or with suppressors, you might want to make sure you get an upper with M4 feed ramps (and matching bbl extension) and you should probably run something like a PRI gasbuster with the upper.

At the end of the day, I have yet to see anything to prove that a $300 VLTOR stripped upper will shoot better or last longer than a $115 Aero Precision stripped upper.

The Canadian and US militaries run standard milspec A3 or M4 type flat-top forged uppers no different than the $115 AP upper I just mentioned and those guns see more rounds between rebuilds than you will ever shoot in your lifetime.

Just keep the sand out of it as much as possible and run the bolt sloppy wet with CLP and you'll have zero issues for the life of the rifle.

I'm not 100% convinced about this.

I have a CMMG piston upper. I ran 3K rounds through it a couple weeks ago over 4 days. I was jamming on a regular basis so I stripped the whole thing apart and I found the grove where the square lug that locks and unlocks the bolt rides was worn about 0.050" for about the first inch of the way back. I run wheel bearing grease and never run it dry. I have about 5K rounds through this upper now and I am not very impressed. I have RRA upper I am going to install and monitor the situation.

 

[Claven2]

I'm not 100% convinced about this.

I have a CMMG piston upper. I ran 3K rounds through it a couple weeks ago over 4 days. I was jamming on a regular basis so I stripped the whole thing apart and I found the grove where the square lug that locks and unlocks the bolt rides was worn about 0.050" for about the first inch of the way back. I run wheel bearing grease and never run it dry. I have about 5K rounds through this upper now and I am not very impressed. I have RRA upper I am going to install and monitor the situation.

Respectfully, you aren't using an AR15. You're using some non-military modification of an AR15 that it was never designed to handle. Except for a few exceptions, most piston setups are very hard on the AR15 design. It was designed to fire using direct impingement.