URGENT - Ontario Moose Hunters - Proposed Season and Regulations Changes

Using the 2013 statistics, there were 102,500 applicants to the draw. That's over $5 million in revenue to the province. The government is addicted to the revenue generated, and will never make any significant changes that will affect their income. A total overhaul of the draw system has been needed for a long time now, but the MNR has done nothing but tinker and apply band-aids.

The only thing that would get their attention is a total boycott of moose licence purchases. The proposed changes only affect northern WMU's so far, and I doubt if there would be enough solidarity amongst more southerly hunters to have an impact.
 
I did post my comments on the site, but not holding my breath that anything we say at this point will make any difference.

I did some searching and found a 2009 report on Moose from the MNR proposing a "strategy".

The calf season that is "proposed" for 2015/2016 is laid out almost word for word in the 2009 report.

So it looks like this was a "done deal" many YEARS before they most "graciously" put it out for "public input".

Another case of "well we gave interested parties a chance to give us input - they were "consulted"" even though the decision was made many years back - it has just taken the government this long to implement what was already decided long ago.
 
That's it, I'm done. Haven't got an adult tag since 1994 anyways.

At least that's $60 that'll stay in my pocket this year, friggan thieves.

But whatever you do make sure the anti's don't get upset by opening the spring bear across all Ontario again.
 
galamb said:
I did some searching and found a 2009 report on Moose from the MNR proposing a "strategy".

The calf season that is "proposed" for 2015/2016 is laid out almost word for word in the 2009 report.

So it looks like this was a "done deal" many YEARS before they most "graciously" put it out for "public input".
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to that report?
 
it sucks for the guys that do the moose hunt, but I'm going to play the devils advocate at the moment...so please don't hate. Yes the MNR are a bunch of screw ups, BUT, how many guys go north for wolf or yote'es? such predators need to be addressed as well, and it needs to be a hunter to take care of the problem, just saying. we have a HUGE coyote problem here in SWO, big problem in my area anyways,and there taking out all of our deer...the solution, my buddy and i do hunt every two or three weeks to help off set and bring back the balance. if you want a moose hunt to continue, you got to step up to the plate and help address the problem as well.
 
I agree with you that we need to solve or help out some of our own issues but I think that is where the MNR can "help us help ourselves".

I have been hunting Moose up in WMU 25, about half way between Cochrane and Moosonee for coming on 40 years now.

I remember one occasion quite clearly maybe 15 or so years back where before we hopped on the train to go north (yes, train in to where we hunt) we were met my an MNR dude looking for hunters heading north.

He asked if we had shotguns and shotshells - we responded yes, he then went on to ask us to "blast" every Snow Goose that we saw with no regard to licence or daily quota's etc. They were destroying the vegetation and the MNR was worried they would starve themselves and the Canada Geese right out of existence.

So if predators are part of the problem why doesn't the MNR "include" a wolf/coyote licence as part of the Moose tag for WMU's that are a problem? And give some direction as to how many they would like to remove (ie. shoot everyone you see or tag includes 5 tags for yotes etc).

I hunt pretty much from Oct 1st until it too cold to go out (or new years eve, whichever comes first) - mostly deer in the early bow/gun/late bow seasons but will blast any coyote I see just on general principle (allowed with small game licence in my deer WMU).

If the MNR want's to "manage" things plus "encourage hunting/fishing" and "expand opportunities" a little "creative thinking" and some "incentives for hunters" to do some of the job for them certainly wouldn't hurt.
 
FromTheNorth said:
it sucks for the guys that do the moose hunt, but I'm going to play the devils advocate at the moment...so please don't hate. Yes the MNR are a bunch of screw ups, BUT, how many guys go north for wolf or yote'es?.
Click to expand...

I'd wager very few anymore. There used to be some southerners and Americans that came up for wolf hunting. Never a huge amount though. I'd wager it was a very small fraction of overall hunters in Ontario. Nobody traveled north for coyote's because you can hunt them in the south. Not so much for wolf. The problem isn't that there aren't people coming up north anymore to hunt wolf/coyote's because in all honesty, there never really were that many. It's the fact that the people who actually live up here can't kill more than 2 a year. We used to kill a fair amount of them. It was a "shoot on sight" type of thing. Kinda like what you can still do down south. Of course, all the people who make the regulations regarding this stuff don't actually live in the north and don't have to live with the consequences of their decisions.
 
The wolves are not the problem the MNR has solid evidence that a bear will track a cow in the spring until she drops a calf and the bear is on it instantly. /when bears are coming as far south as Newmarket and London how many remain in their home range????
A calf has little or no chance and the fact that a certain group prefers to shoot calves because in their words" a cow or a bull is too much work".

In 'sw Ontario yes we have a large number of coyotes but they have not affected the deer in our area one bit, turkeys take a hit though in deep snow. Another biological fact is the harder you try and exterminate a wolf or coyote population the more they compensate by having bigger litters. When the area is at or near capacity the litters are smaller resulting in fewer critters. Around our area mange gets far more than hunters. Two weekends ago we shot 8 coyotes and left 7 in the bush with mange. /all 8 came out of a 2 country block area and we shoot on average 60-90 a year and maybe ship 10-20 of those that are not mangy.

An over abundance of bears and government mismanagement is the problem
 
i really sympathies for the moose hunters, i haven't done it before but i wish to someday. it really sucks that there is a problem some were, whether its with the MNR, poachers, predators, disease. as for the yote problem in SW, my area especially, we have seen more evidence of them taking deer thats why we are doing the hunt more often now, even if they have bigger litters, any hunting is better then no hunting...i know a few farmers that say yotes are coming up to the barns at night looking for some calfs.
 
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well that sucks
i hunt 41 and the chance of an adult tag is about 1% yes 1% so we basically have a one week season this year
ffs

the tag system is a good idea and would work to help the population If everyone followed it
 
For those who don't hunt moose here is a bit of a run down about what we are getting at/upset with here.

Getting an adult moose tag is like the antlerless deer tags in Ontario - you have to put in to a draw for the specific WMU you wish to hunt.

There are two different levels of "pools" - pool 2 and pool 1

Each WMU has a set number of tags for Bulls and Cows.

Moose hunting is also totally geared to "group hunting".

Since tags are generally difficult to draw, due to low numbers of tags compared to the number of hunters you have to submit as a group of say 6, 8 or possibly 12 or more hunters, all being in pool 1 to possibly draw a single adult tag.

The "group" enters the draw for say a Bull in WMU 16 OR a Cow in WMU 16 - all group hunters enter as a single applicant to the draw.

If you drew a tag last year or were not in the draw last year you are in pool 2.

If you were in the draw but didn't get an adult tag last year (or for any number of years past, uninterrupted) you are in pool 1.

If you didn't get an adult tag (either bull OR cow, but not both) your licence is/was good for a calf moose in ANY WMU.

When you put in with a group (pretty much the only way to get any adult tag) as soon as "anyone" in that group draws a tag, all others are removed from the process. The one who actually got the tag would move to pool 2 the following year, all the others would remain as pool 1 hunters.

Tags are allocated "randomly" first amongst pool 1 hunters/WMU and then if any are left over after all the pool 1 hunters are done, then pool 2 hunters until all the tags are gone. In most cases there are more pool 1 hunters than tags so many to the majority of pool 1 hunters don't get a tag for any given year.

That could/would result in say 1 bull tag for 12 hunters (or whatever your group size was), plus 11 calf tags OR NO adult tags, so simply 12 calf tags.

If you ended up not hunting with the group you submitted with you would only have a calf tag unless it was you who drew the adult tag for a specific WMU.

If "no-one" in the group drew an adult tag (actually more common than you may think) then your entire group would only have calf tags.

Now they want to limit the calf season, which used to run the entire season, to two weeks, running just before the traditional gun season for deer (so the calf season would run last two weeks of October).

Some of us hunt in Northern Ontario where the moose season opens the third week of September. So if we don't pull an adult tag we would have to wait until the 2nd or 3rd week of October to hunt calves (instead of hunting them back in September as has been the case for 20 or more years now).

This could result in having to buy tags "this year" just to keep our "pool position", hoping to pull an adult tag "next year or in some future year" even though it's probably not "logistically viable" to hunt "any moose" this year due to the late calf season.

And if we didn't pull next year either then the MNR would get all the licence fees from the entire group (over 600 bucks for a group of 12) just to keep their pool position with little to no chance than any of them would hunt in the year they bought the licence.

So if any Moose hunter doesn't buy a tag this year, whether or not they plan on hunting, they will lose their pool position and have to start over from scratch when they do decide to get back into the draws.

I "know" I won't go north for a calf in late October but if I (and my hunting buddies) don't fork over (almost) 60 bucks to stay in the game we most certainly won't have an adult tag next year (or some future year if we don't get drawn next year either)

The system is convoluted to say the least and this is just adding multiple layers of crap on top of it...
 
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They should be implementing a reduced fee to apply in adult tag draws, say $15. If you are successful in draw you can pay the rest then. I don't like the idea of paying $60 for a 2 week calf hunt
 
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