US Army Launches Competition for More Powerful Combat Rifle
- Thread starter diopter
- Start date
The whole point of this is to use M80A1 - read between the lines and do a google, in the last year or two you can find Chinese ceramic plates on Alibaba. They used to only offer "plastic plates" that cannot stop M855, but lately ceramic plates advertised as "level 4) are widely available from China commerically.
The M80A1 must be able to defeat the so called special threat plates that is generally advertised as Level 3 +. This essentially outdates all the level 3 plates, level 3 compressed poly and hybrid poly/ceramic out there to stop M855. If they are looking to defeat ESAPI, this means it will be need to defeat roughly a level 4 plate.
So far nothing has published the exact armour penetrating ( not steel, put ceramic ) capability of M80A1. If it needs to defeat ESAPI, the M80A1 out of a 16" barrel must outperform a typical 7.62X54R AP, roughly a 30-06 AP. This thing must have a pretty high velocity and a hard AP core.
Now, a 12 pound before optics and 210 rounds of 7.62 will not be what I called a "light weight system" at all, unless there is a polymer cased ammo in the pipeline. Definitely won't be a weapon for fast manoeuvring. The entire infantry section will now be dragged down by more "heavy weapons". This maybe army thinking but I don't think USMC will buy into this.
The fact that if they identify 5.56 is not sufficient in AP, this means the new SAW coming in 2020 will not be 5.56. Hauling a traditional cased 7.62 SAW is too heavy and clumsy, so it will need to be a plastic telescope cased in 6.5 in "light" AP format. The telling story is that if the DOD is really worrying about defeating ceramic plates and going this direction, we will be seeing the demise of brass cased ammo in the near future as a much more definite event. We may also be seeing a come back of 20 and 25mm light weight programmable fragmentation weapons.
As insidious as it sounds, we may actually have to subscribe to "severe wounding" with fragmentation weapons if armour becomes too wide spread.
The M80A1 must be able to defeat the so called special threat plates that is generally advertised as Level 3 +. This essentially outdates all the level 3 plates, level 3 compressed poly and hybrid poly/ceramic out there to stop M855. If they are looking to defeat ESAPI, this means it will be need to defeat roughly a level 4 plate.
So far nothing has published the exact armour penetrating ( not steel, put ceramic ) capability of M80A1. If it needs to defeat ESAPI, the M80A1 out of a 16" barrel must outperform a typical 7.62X54R AP, roughly a 30-06 AP. This thing must have a pretty high velocity and a hard AP core.
Now, a 12 pound before optics and 210 rounds of 7.62 will not be what I called a "light weight system" at all, unless there is a polymer cased ammo in the pipeline. Definitely won't be a weapon for fast manoeuvring. The entire infantry section will now be dragged down by more "heavy weapons". This maybe army thinking but I don't think USMC will buy into this.
The fact that if they identify 5.56 is not sufficient in AP, this means the new SAW coming in 2020 will not be 5.56. Hauling a traditional cased 7.62 SAW is too heavy and clumsy, so it will need to be a plastic telescope cased in 6.5 in "light" AP format. The telling story is that if the DOD is really worrying about defeating ceramic plates and going this direction, we will be seeing the demise of brass cased ammo in the near future as a much more definite event. We may also be seeing a come back of 20 and 25mm light weight programmable fragmentation weapons.
As insidious as it sounds, we may actually have to subscribe to "severe wounding" with fragmentation weapons if armour becomes too wide spread.
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Exactly my thought. With 20-30 rounds mag and overall load requirements wound't they chose .300BLK over 7.62x51 cartridge?
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Interesting, I saw M80A1 in 7.62x51 tested against ceramic, but haven't seen any tests of M80A1 in 300BLK against ceramic. Or 300BLK even theoretically cannot provide enough energy and no point in testing?
. Would be some fat mags tho... Lol.A 130gr bullet with a MV of 3000 fps out of a GPMG. I guess it is 2800ish out of a 16" carbine.
A 300BLK out will probably push this out at 2200ish out of a carbine.
Most of the level 3 armour can easily stop AK shooting soft steel core. Not enough juice there to reliably defeat armour I guess.
The maximum buy is 50,000, but they were talking about 2000 before. I guess they are thinking about 1 to 2 per rifle squad, maybe 7000ish at the end?
If they buy 50,000 the maximum, this means all the infanteers will have it.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The bid also says it could be for less than 50,000 or zero.
Here's the Criteria for those that are too lazy to read:
The competition will consist of live-fire testing and evaluate the following:
-Dispersion (300m - function, 600m - simulation)
-Compatible with Family of Weapon Sights - Individual and laser
-Weapon length (folder or collapsed)/ Weight (empty/bare) / Velocity (300m and 600m calculated)
-Semi-Automatic and Fully Automatic function testing (bursts and full auto)
-Noise (at shooter's ear) / Flash suppression
-Ambidextrous Controls (in darkness or adverse conditions) / Rail interface
-20-30 round magazine to support a 210 round combat load
-Folding sights
The competition will consist of live-fire testing and evaluate the following:
-Dispersion (300m - function, 600m - simulation)
-Compatible with Family of Weapon Sights - Individual and laser
-Weapon length (folder or collapsed)/ Weight (empty/bare) / Velocity (300m and 600m calculated)
-Semi-Automatic and Fully Automatic function testing (bursts and full auto)
-Noise (at shooter's ear) / Flash suppression
-Ambidextrous Controls (in darkness or adverse conditions) / Rail interface
-20-30 round magazine to support a 210 round combat load
-Folding sights
Need updated, short version of FG42 in .338 Lapua with API bullets with larger brake and sound moderator. Bullpup perhaps.
Maybe an AR10 style like the M110 in 338LM
https://www.fddefense.com/rifles/fd338/
Wish I could find the weight specs.
Maybe an AR10 style like the M110 in 338LM
https://www.fddefense.com/rifles/fd338/
Wish I could find the weight specs.
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