Used Norcs to avoid
- Thread starter SC0tt
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Norc 1911's...
Perhaps... but I think the simple fact that Armco, a company owned by a 1911 pistolsmith, can't keep 'tuned' Norc 1911A-1's and Compacts in stock speaks volumes about the quality you get in a Norc 1911 style pistol.
Norc's maybe aren't everyone's cup of tea but a 'quality for the money' 1911 pistol available on today's market, nevertheless...
capp325 said:
Perhaps... but I think the simple fact that Armco, a company owned by a 1911 pistolsmith, can't keep 'tuned' Norc 1911A-1's and Compacts in stock speaks volumes about the quality you get in a Norc 1911 style pistol.
Norc's maybe aren't everyone's cup of tea but a 'quality for the money' 1911 pistol available on today's market, nevertheless...
NAA said:
I am refering to just used Norcs. Nothing fancy or they would be listed and they go for more than new ones. These sellers might as well enjoy asking these prices because once the slow boat gets here, (if ever) the used prices will drop fast.
capp325 said:
Like I said, Norc 1911's represent good 'quality for the money'....
I certainly wish when I started out shooting .45ACP on a 1911 platform, many years ago, that there was a comparable 'affordable' 1911 on the market back then.
hey Capp..why do you always bag on Norinco steel? You have no metalurgical data that substatiates you constant mud slinging posts. And no a brief excerpt from the economist does not count. Perhaps you should leave opinions on Norincos to those that actually own them and build them. This guy wants to know which Norks to look for a cheap gun as hes a student.
My opinion would be to consider the Govt 1911 .45
My opinion would be to consider the Govt 1911 .45
capp325
Either you enjooy trolling or can't read. THe type of steel in Norincos was answered in another thread you participated in and to come back with a post such as you just did is beyond ignorant. You obviously don't like Norincos but given your propensity to ignore the obvious we can safely assume your opinion on virtually any subject is not worth considering.
Take Care
Either you enjooy trolling or can't read. THe type of steel in Norincos was answered in another thread you participated in and to come back with a post such as you just did is beyond ignorant. You obviously don't like Norincos but given your propensity to ignore the obvious we can safely assume your opinion on virtually any subject is not worth considering.
Take Care
See the thread that I posted a couple of days ago. It refutes the stupid rumor that Norinco uses some sort of super hard, indestructible wonder steel. And if you don't like my opinions, feel free to skip my posts.Canuck44 said:
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sad but true (make that a bargain and true! ); the steel used in Norc slides and frames is better than that in my Kimbers, and is better than just about any other 1911 or other American gun you can name from lame to fancy too... One things for sure, the manufacturing can be crude, but the Chinese know their industrial steels, and testing has shown this.
); the steel used in Norc slides and frames is better than that in my Kimbers, and is better than just about any other 1911 or other American gun you can name from lame to fancy too... One things for sure, the manufacturing can be crude, but the Chinese know their industrial steels, and testing has shown this.
I'm not "bagging" Norinco steel. My response was to Unregistered, who it appears was reading Norinco koolaid threads. I was merely pointing out that the presumption that Norinco uses superior grade steel is based on an unverified Internet rumor that for all we know could have been started by people who make money selling Norinco products.USP said:
Ouch, that hurtspontcanna said:
I find it quite amusing that the only people who are attacking me are diehard Norinco loyalists, including people like Pontcanna, who essentially acts as this board's resident advertising agent for the company that imports Norinco products. As longs as you folks keep drinking Norinco koolaid, I reserve the right to call your BS.
Back on topic... I think you're pretty safe going for any of the Norinco 1911 type pistols, be they 9mm or .45. An intermediate option is to simply buy a new 1911 and have some trigger work done, or buy one new from Armco with the full tune-up job.
As time goes on, you can do upgrades to suit your tastes (new grips, full-length guide-rod, fit a new trigger, etc.).
As time goes on, you can do upgrades to suit your tastes (new grips, full-length guide-rod, fit a new trigger, etc.).
Capp.... you talk alot of BS> find and post a technical article published by either a metalurgical engineer or a repuatable gunsmith that clearly shows that Norinco steel is garbage..otherwise maybe you should keep to what you know best...ie: not much.
I think Norinco for the money offers great value for those just starting up the hobby, as well it offers a great platform for those wanting to build off of.
I think Norinco for the money offers great value for those just starting up the hobby, as well it offers a great platform for those wanting to build off of.
There you go:USP said:
http://www.fulton-armory.com/M14S_Eval.htm
And since you are such a smartass, why don't you take your own advice and post an article that shows that Norinco steel is of superior quality that was written by a reputable engineer or gunsmith who (a) is not a Norinco owner and (b) does not make money selling Norinco wares.
lol once again you post a misleading link...
we are talking pistols...this guy is interested in which Norinco models are the best for the money..reliability etc..
I shouldve just not posted...you must be right, and all the multitudes of owners and gunsmiths that are high on glue must be wrong.
I think it doesnt matter what you are shown as you seem incapable of entertaining the thought that the chineese can build a quality firearm and sell it at a lower cost than a comparably functioning western firearm. I can only conclude that you must have some sort of an axe to grind against Norinco in general. The fact that you are neither an engineer nor a gunsmith nor do you own any Norinco products speaks volumes on your opinion.
Perhaps you should content yourself with not owning one and leave it at that?
BTW do you not comprehend that the Chineese are able to manufacture products at extremely low costs due to thier usage of low paying and or slave labour, lack of unions, no interest in pollution etc..? It would be interesting to know the true manufacturing cost in materials only for a Colt vs. a Nork .45 Govt.
Capp, do you even know how steel is made?
we are talking pistols...this guy is interested in which Norinco models are the best for the money..reliability etc..
I shouldve just not posted...you must be right, and all the multitudes of owners and gunsmiths that are high on glue must be wrong.
I think it doesnt matter what you are shown as you seem incapable of entertaining the thought that the chineese can build a quality firearm and sell it at a lower cost than a comparably functioning western firearm. I can only conclude that you must have some sort of an axe to grind against Norinco in general. The fact that you are neither an engineer nor a gunsmith nor do you own any Norinco products speaks volumes on your opinion.
Perhaps you should content yourself with not owning one and leave it at that?
BTW do you not comprehend that the Chineese are able to manufacture products at extremely low costs due to thier usage of low paying and or slave labour, lack of unions, no interest in pollution etc..? It would be interesting to know the true manufacturing cost in materials only for a Colt vs. a Nork .45 Govt.
Capp, do you even know how steel is made?
USP, I have very little interest in your ramblings at this point. I've heard them before. I'm still waiting for you to post an article from a reputable gunsmith or engineer though.
P.S. I apologize to Scott for participating in the hijacking of his thread. To get this back on topic, you should definitely avoid aluminum-framed Norincos. If you do a search on this board you will find multiple reports of frames cracking after only a couple of thousand rounds. Considering that there can't be more than a few of hundred of these guns floating around, your odds aren't that great.
P.S. I apologize to Scott for participating in the hijacking of his thread. To get this back on topic, you should definitely avoid aluminum-framed Norincos. If you do a search on this board you will find multiple reports of frames cracking after only a couple of thousand rounds. Considering that there can't be more than a few of hundred of these guns floating around, your odds aren't that great.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
capp325 said:
Fulton Armory is in the business of selling M1A's, to post an article they published on a competitive product, and given the extremely obvious intrinsic bias of Fulton Armory for 'homecooked' goods, using this as your source is no different and in fact worse than the slandering you place on pontcanna in relation to any bias.
I didn't know what Fulton Armory was when I posted that link. However, what is stated on that website is a well-known, documented fact. Here's the same thing from another source:Ardent said:
After Smith Enterprise completed the evaluation, a second meeting of the parties involved was held. Even after this second meeting, Poly Technologies [part of Norinco] did not correct all the concerns of Smith Enterprise and Keng’s Firearms had regarding the Chinese bolt. Specifically, 1) the bolt locking lugs were too narrow 2) the carburizing and hardness remained unsatisfactory because State Arsenal 356 did not change the material to equivalent AISI 8620 steel but continued to use steel equivalent to AISI 4135. This was in spite of the fact that Keng’s Firearms offered to supply USGI M14 bolts until Poly Technologies could manufacture its own bolts according to USGI specifications. Poly Technologies refused this offer from Keng’s Firearms. The Chinese never changed the bolt material for M14 type rifles exported to the United States.
www.imageseek.com/m1a/M14RHAD060113%20web%20site.doc
P.S. I realize that the article cited above discusses Norinco M14 knock-offs, not their 1911 knock-offs. I'm only pointing this out to demonstrate that Norinco has been known to use inferior, poor quality materials in many of its products. That is why in the absence of cogent evidence, any claim that Norinco 1911s utilize much better steel than guns costing several times should be treated with a grain of salt.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
You're harping on the bolts, I'm talking pistol slides, frames, and new production M14 receivers. The big steel pieces. I will never argue the small bits are high quality, I junk bin everything but the majors on my Norc builds. The steel in the frames, slides, and receivers is excellent, I will never defend the small parts, while they usually work.
BUT, the most important point that's missing from you're argument's support citations, is that those tests are concerning poly's of older vintage. They did have soft bolts frequently. The poly's stateside and the modern M14S do not share many issues. The US poly's are old prebans, today the Norc M14S's are in my opinion of higher quality, having owned both (still have M14S's).
BUT, the most important point that's missing from you're argument's support citations, is that those tests are concerning poly's of older vintage. They did have soft bolts frequently. The poly's stateside and the modern M14S do not share many issues. The US poly's are old prebans, today the Norc M14S's are in my opinion of higher quality, having owned both (still have M14S's).
