Useful Life of Brass

dpo2o

dpo2o

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Hi all,

A question for the experts. How many times can you reuse brass? In this case pistol brass but all opinions on all types welcome. I know there probably isn't a hard and fast number but a ball park figure would be good. I am not talking about any special loadings but something that would approximate the original powder charge from the factory.
 
I have seen brass reloaded more than 4 times with win or rem brass, with moderate hunting loads. However, the hotter you go, the less brass life you will see is a general rule of thumb. Also, the more you work the brass through firing and sizing, the less life the brass will provide.

The points below are areas you can check prior to loading. I think some of these still apply to pistol brass but not sure as I do not reload for pistols.

For rifle brass, look for incipient case head separation and loose primer pockets as tell tale signs that your brass is past ready for the bone pile. Case stretching is normal for bottleneck cases. As you trim, the brass you are trimming is coming from the web of the case (google incipient case head separation). This is an area where heaspacing may be an issue. Proper die setting is critical to maintaining brass life and over doing it could get you to separation faster.

When seating your primers you will "feel" some resistance in the process, when that resistance goes away, you are entering the bone pile phase. This happens faster with hot near max pressures. I have noticed loosend primer pockets with one or two loadings with fed or rem brass with near max loadings.

Case hardening is a normal process for brass. You may notice heavy sooting, or seating bullets becomes harder with the number of loadings. All of this could be associated with brass hardening. The final result of hardening is brass failure such as neck splitting or case separation. You need not go there. Toss them in the bone pile or learn to anneal your brass well before this becomes an issue. Elky.....
 
dpo2o said:
Hi all,

A question for the experts. How many times can you reuse brass? In this case pistol brass but all opinions on all types welcome. I know there probably isn't a hard and fast number but a ball park figure would be good. I am not talking about any special loadings but something that would approximate the original powder charge from the factory.
Click to expand...

It does really depend on the loadings. I've never worn out a case when shooting black powder cartridge for instance.

For pistol loads, I shoot .45 Colt with 8gr of Unique and have some brass on it's 8th loading with no cases lost to splits.

I've got smokeless loaded cases for .45-70 that have been loaded 14 times with no cases lost due to splits.

Generally I toss cases once they've been trimmed 3 times though. Hot loads can definitely stress your brass more than mild ones.

To give you an example of the extreme, in Schuetzen I've heard of the same case being used more than 2000 times. :D

Chris.
 
I would consider pistol brass to have an indefinite life. The mouth might crack from work hardening eventually, but you will end up losing it first most of the time.
 
Depends on the caliber, load bullet and how you take care of them.. I load 38 special until they crack.. I've got some that have to have been loaded 30 times or more.. 45 I can load 6-7 times or there abouts... several times...

Rifle is another story...
 
I had one batch of 50 rounds of 223 that I neck sized,that I reloaded 34 times,till I had to toss em ,I had to toss 2 cases due to neck crack, and had to trim 3 cases.{The 2 cases I tossed were used 15 times} !!
 
Low pressure pistol cases (38 Special, .45 Auto, and many more) will take hundreds of loadings.

There are some guys on AR15.com doing an experiment that is proving that bottle-necked rifle cases take 80 or more loadings to fail by work hardening alone when worked minimally each firing. The size of your chamber, your dies and the power of loads can be the difference between a rifle case that lasts 3 firings and one that lasts 90.
 
I have some .357 Mag cases I've used dozens of times - still going strong. Ditto 9 x 19.

Some factors that play a part:

  • Quality of the brass. Good brass will last a lot longer.

  • Storage conditions, in particular exposure to chemicals. As an extreme example, even a hint of mercury will cause brass to split.

  • How hot you are loading. Very high pressure will dramatically cut case life.

  • How much you work the brass while reloading - neck resizing vs full-length resizing, how much you bell the case mouth, how much you crimp, etc.

  • The dimensions of the chamber it's being fired in, including headspace. An oversize chamber will shorten case length.

  • Case shape. Personal suspicion here, but I think bottleneck cases have a shorter life. (Be interested in seeing other reloaders' opinions on that.)

You can in any case prolong the life be annealing the cases.
 
Case life depends entirely on the load used. Hot loads reduce case life. Using light .38 target loads, the brass can literally last forever. Ditto for .45 ACP target loads.
Like bear.23 says, rifle brass is a different thing. It depends on the load too, but also whether or not you're full length resizing for a semi-auto(or a lever or pump action) or neck sizing for a bolt action. You load 'em until you get one cracked neck, then pitch that one and anneal the rest. Annealing isn't difficult nor does it require special equipment. A regular propane torch and a pan of water is all you need. You won't need to anneal handgun cases though.
Head separations and loose primer pockets usually aren't much of an issue in a hunting rifle. Loose pockets usually come with soft brass like Federal. Head separations are one indication of bad headspace. Not common in new or newer commercial hunting rifles, but it happens. Have a .243 Cooey Model 71 that had bad headspace. Didn't know until the extractor broke.
"...original powder charge from the factory..." Which one? Factory ammo varies between hot loads and target loads too.
 
I've got some 44 mag brass that's been reloaded probably 40 times. I don't know what it is with that caliber...I guess it's the straight walled cases aren't taking as much of a beating ??? The only 44 mag brass I've ever had fail were my fault and were killed when I jammed up the press.

I was getting about 13 out of my 300 win mag brass in my Stevens 200.

The numbers are all over the place and the variables that effect them are endless.
 
Yes, many factors involved in case life, particularly as applied to bottleneck rifle brass. I have a lot of 6mm Remington brass that is on it's 14th loading without any issues. I have had Federal 30-06 brass that the primer pockets were shot after 4 firings. Same load in WW cases [at similar case weights] never loosens primer pockets. Regards, Eagleye.
 
ATOM said:
Some factors that play a part:

  • The dimensions of the chamber it's being fired in, including headspace. An oversize chamber will shorten case length.

You can in any case prolong the life be annealing the cases.
Click to expand...


this is one area where a good knowledge of the process helps a lot.

an oversized chamber need not cause a problem, if you know, and adjust accordingly.
perhaps if it is grossly oversized... but then, I'd substitute different brass for a better fit.
 
dpo2o said:
A question for the experts. How many times can you reuse brass? In this case pistol brass but all opinions on all types welcome. I know there probably isn't a hard and fast number but a ball park figure would be good. I am not talking about any special loadings but something that would approximate the original powder charge from the factory.
Click to expand...

No expert here, but I'll pitch in anyway. I've lost count of .45acp reloads per casing, but suffice it to say that many of my 45 brass have very shallow headstamps remaining....hardly readable. I'd guess at least a couple of dozen reloads. I will lose 45 brass before they wear out or split:) I notice more splits when loading to max, than mid-range.

For .38 special, splits are rare in my experience, even when loading to +P+ pressure (1,000 fps with 158 grain LSWC). I never lose 38/357 brass and don't need to look for them....that's why I love revolvers.:)
Again, lost count of # of reloads, but I read a magazine article that tested .38 spl brass life and it ran into more than 120 reloads and they quit. They did get splits as early as 10 reloads or so, IIRC. I would estimate on average, perhaps 80-100 reloads per .38 spl case.

for 9mm, i never bothered to think about number of reloads....they are as numerous as the grains of sand or hairs on one's head. I can pick up a couple hundred easily each time I go to the range. .40 S&W is almost as plentiful at my range. But I'd say at least 10 reloads on average (these are very high pressure rounds) and I would check the barrel throat for adequate casehead support on 9mm and 40 cal pistols before I shoot reloads in them.
 
My answer to the question "how many times can brass be re-used"? You need to consider performance. I have heard of guys shooting cast bullets at low pressure using rifle brass 60 times. If you shoot max loads you are lucky to get 5, 3 is more realistic, depending on the size of the chamber and the degree to which you have to resize. I know a guy who laps his dies with a fired cartridge to make them reduce the fired shoulder .002" and no more..
 
I had a batch Norma .308 Win brass that I reloaded over 40 times before I gave up and tossed them. I could have kept going but I had a couple necks split and I had lost count anyway.

The cases were only neck sized, the loads were moderate (but not light), I annealed the necks twice when I started to feel a fair bit of drag on the expander ball.
 
nanuk said:
this is one area where a good knowledge of the process helps a lot.

an oversized chamber need not cause a problem, if you know, and adjust accordingly.
perhaps if it is grossly oversized... but then, I'd substitute different brass for a better fit.
Click to expand...

Well, as I see it, it's not the one time the brass is fired that causes the problem. It's the number of times it has to be resized vs the amount it has to be resized. If the chamber is oversize, then the resizing is going to be greater each time, leading to a more rapid work-hardening. One could, I suppose, get special dies made that are themselves oversize to the same degree, but how realistic is that?
 
I think it was Bill Leeper that was complaining about only getting about 100 loads from some of his .308 brass.
Short range benchrest guys can get crazy case life, and using pretty hot loads too.
 
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