But you have to be hunting to fall under hunting regs.
Exactly the same as here in ab. Have to be plugged for game birds. But if I'm hiking I'm not hunting.
They have to prove you are hunting first.
Using 12 Gauge Slugs for Bear Defense? Here's a slug review you'll want to watch.
- Thread starter Brobee
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Exactly the same as here in ab. Have to be plugged for game birds. But if I'm hiking I'm not hunting.
They have to prove you are hunting first.
If your in the woods with a Firearm, your hunting. That's how they look at it back there. Not saying its right, but that's what they do. Why people will get a , bear, rabbit, coyote, seal, moose, etc licenses so they care take the gun all year pretty much, except for one month.
Hell if your bird hunting, and you have your shotgun legally plugged, but you are found with slugs, you can get charged. They automatically assume your poaching.
Bottom line is your right, people need to fight back on these bs laws. However, outside of St.Johns and a few bigger areas, the outports are full of fudds and life long liberals who like the laws the way they are. As well its an older population as well who use firearms less and less.
I always carry slugs when I'm bird hunting, in case I or the dog have a bear problem. I can't imagine how any charge by a CO under those circumstances would stick.
I would be: NOT carrying a big game license, accompanied by a dog (illegal while hunting big game), and possibly not during a big game season. It would be OBVIOUS that I'm not hunting big game. I'd love to see that charge go to court.
Exactly. They have to prove you are hunting. Not you prove you're not.
Walking on hiking trails, with family, dressed in hiking clothes, with no other hunting equipment just a shotgun. Good luk charging me. Ill see you in court.
Just telling ya how it is, not how it should be. I love Alberta!
In Ontario having a gun in the bush is called "prime facia" evidence of hunting under the Fish and Game Act . Where I live there is no open season for anything between June 15th when rabbits close and Aug 15th when bear opens so there is no valid licence for anything meaning the gun is "prime facia" evidence of hunting plus you are hunting in closed season which is poaching . Then if your shotgun isn't plugged you have another charge because you're now hunting , "prime facia" under the Fish and Game Act with an unplugged shotgun . Now if you're in a gravel pit shooting clays , obviously target shooting in an open area , no trouble but walk into the bush with the gun , trouble . I've been over this with CO's and a Justice Of The Peace so you will get your day in court , in Ontario . It can be different in different regions of Ontario . Below the French River there are seasons for something , maybe crows , coons or groundhogs all year long but not north of the French River . "Prime Facia" , you are hunting . It gets more fvcked . If you have an ATC to carry a handgun for lawful occupation to protect yourself , you're fine in closed seasons because you can't lawfully hunt with a handgun . Leave the handgun at home and take a shotgun that is legal to hunt with in an open season , in a closed season , now the trouble starts . I've had an ATC since 1980 and I've been to court twice over this . No conviction .
The law in Ontario reads:
"109. In a prosecution under this Act in respect of hunting or trapping,
(a) proof that a person possessed, in an area usually inhabited by wildlife, a firearm, trap, decoy or other hunting or trapping device, a ferret or a specially protected raptor or other bird of prey, is proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the person was hunting or trapping, as the case may be; and
(b) proof that a person shot at or stalked a decoy or other device placed by a conservation officer to suggest the presence of wildlife is proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the person was hunting. 1997, c. 41, s. 109."
"109. In a prosecution under this Act in respect of hunting or trapping,
(a) proof that a person possessed, in an area usually inhabited by wildlife, a firearm, trap, decoy or other hunting or trapping device, a ferret or a specially protected raptor or other bird of prey, is proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the person was hunting or trapping, as the case may be; and
(b) proof that a person shot at or stalked a decoy or other device placed by a conservation officer to suggest the presence of wildlife is proof, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the person was hunting. 1997, c. 41, s. 109."
Exactly. Evidence to the contrary would be the presence of family and kids, the lack of hunting equipment, the fact you were walking on regular hiking trails, etc etc.
Also, the quoted section has an AND between a and b, implying you have to be possessing A and doing B.
remember you are innocent, they have to prove your guilt whatever any provincial regs say.
I hardly see a judge supporting a hunting prosecution for someone simply out camping or hiking and giving no impression of hunting at all.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Charges would stick fairly easily under the Migratory Birds Act. Have you carried lead ammo while duck hunting which you're only planning to use should a grouse come along? Same deal. Not saying it's right, but if you get a CO lacking discretion, you can get charged. A judge would maybe toss it out, but that means a day in court,etc. Not worth it.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Stepping into provincial game laws in this post. Alberta (not migratory bird) is a bit more kindly to it's shotgun hunters. Example; I can carry buckshot, birdshot & slugs when hunting as long as there is an open season for your big game & upland bird species. There is nothing preventing us from using buckshot on upland birds. If we so desire that is. This would be forbidden in Ontario and Saskatchewan I do believe. So, what Silverado mentioned regarding slugs, is just fine & a very common practice amongst shotgun hunters in my neck of the woods. I'm kind of scratching my head on this, but I suspect we can carry slugs [for varmints or bigger problems] even without an open big game season, while actually after smaller animals. (hunting not wilderness protection) Let's assume we are in a hunting zone that is okay for this setup. Which is most of this province.
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bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Correct, my post was in regard to migratory birds. I suppose I shouldn't assume "bird hunting" automatically includes waterfowl.
We have species in MB, like snowshoe hare, which are classed as small game and open year round, no license required and no firearm restrictions specified I'm aware of, so you're good to go with any gun, year round. Same with a $5 trapping license which lets you hunt coyote,wolf,beaver and raccoon year round.
That said, if you have an archery elk tag in your pocket and you're up a tree in a climber with a Benelli M4 and slugs, claiming to be hunting rabbits probably won't fly.
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Great thread. Unlike most here I don't have any dangerous game or big game hunting experience.
Recently I came into possession of a 'home made' 12 gauge slug mold. I just tried it out for fun & the slug it cast was ~ 47 grams, which works out to ~1.657 ounces - taking it further thats ~ 724 grains. as cast they don't have a skirt & as the maker tried to put angled riflings on the mold they are a bit of a challenge to remove from the mold and also the mold takes a while to come up to temperature. If they are ever going to be tried out they will need screw - on felt wads to help them stabilize. Of course I don't have any load data for this. . .
I am envisioning something like this:
why mess with a system that works? - because manufacturers are too greedy to make something good for the effort it takes to make is the answer.
Recently I came into possession of a 'home made' 12 gauge slug mold. I just tried it out for fun & the slug it cast was ~ 47 grams, which works out to ~1.657 ounces - taking it further thats ~ 724 grains. as cast they don't have a skirt & as the maker tried to put angled riflings on the mold they are a bit of a challenge to remove from the mold and also the mold takes a while to come up to temperature. If they are ever going to be tried out they will need screw - on felt wads to help them stabilize. Of course I don't have any load data for this. . .
I am envisioning something like this:
why mess with a system that works? - because manufacturers are too greedy to make something good for the effort it takes to make is the answer.
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Also in AB carrying legal firearms and ammunition in the bush for vicious animal defense is OK. We're even allowed a loaded firearm inside an occupied vehicle for the purpose of vicious animal defense. We don't have to make up bulls**t to avoid being prosecuted for poaching, if that gun is for vicious animals then it is legal so long as no other laws/regulations are being broken. This let's me carry my defenders on the quad or in the truck with a full tube of slugs. I choose to make sure the chamber is empty during transport for safety reasons. I wish other provinces would follow this simple, straightforward model for bringing guns into the bush.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Wouldn't it be easier to just drive away? That's an odd regulation, if true.
None of the foster type slugs penetrate well. They have to be soft to work in choked barrels.
There was a guy that used to post on a now-defunct shooting forum some years ago. He was a wildlife control officer in washington state and had trapped and euthanized several hundred problem black bears. By uethanizing, I mean killing them with a firearm while they were in the trap, so he had more experience shooting black bears at close range than nost people would see in several lifetimes.
His experience was that the foster slugs did not kill effectively. Quite often a bear shot with the foster slug would be knocked down from shock but did not stay down for more than a few seconds. The penetration was poor and the slug seldom made it to the vitals. Multiple shots were needed in most cases even though shot placement was good. They switched to rifles (30-30) IIRC and one-shot kills became the norm.
There was a guy that used to post on a now-defunct shooting forum some years ago. He was a wildlife control officer in washington state and had trapped and euthanized several hundred problem black bears. By uethanizing, I mean killing them with a firearm while they were in the trap, so he had more experience shooting black bears at close range than nost people would see in several lifetimes.
His experience was that the foster slugs did not kill effectively. Quite often a bear shot with the foster slug would be knocked down from shock but did not stay down for more than a few seconds. The penetration was poor and the slug seldom made it to the vitals. Multiple shots were needed in most cases even though shot placement was good. They switched to rifles (30-30) IIRC and one-shot kills became the norm.
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- Prairie drifter
Great video.
