Using the slide stop to drop the slide on an empty chamber (IPSC Global Village)

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wicked_police said:
Why did you leave?
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Change of plans in life.

misanthropist said:
I wasn't quoting the fundamental four. I was referring to your statement earlier: "finger on trigger when not firing is wrong, end of story".

Well, finger on trigger when not firing is not wrong, end of story...finger on trigger when not pointed at something you wouldn't miss is wrong, end of story.

That is why I say, if this were someone else, I wouldn't point out the error. But your habit of talking as though there is one approach, and that approach is your approach, and people who do not see things your way are wrong, makes it more appealing to point this stuff out.

What I am doing here is applying your level of critique witnessed in the Magpul thread, to your posts. I know what you are trying to say...of course. But if we take you at your word 100% of the time, then no, a lot of what you say does not actually work.

I agree that the only valid critique of technique is one based on facts and experience...but the reality is that if you applied the stringent approach to your own information that you do to others', you would recognize a lot of errors.

Like the "finger on the trigger when not firing is wrong, end of story" thing. No, there are times when you can have your finger on the trigger and not be firing. What IS true is that you should be treating the gun as something with the POTENTIAL TO fire.

But that is a different statement, and although I know that's what you meant, that is not what you said.

I therefore conclude that IF you think your posts should all be treated as though they are factually correct, you should probably be looking more closely at what you post.
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I'm not sure you understand. Unless you have decided to shoot something, anything. There is no reason to have your finger on the trigger. This is pretty basic firearms safety. Perhaps you are referring to such instances like engaging multiple targets and sweeping your pistol from one to the other with your finger on the trigger?

beetlejuice said:
I still dont understand how glocks are dao. If i dry fire on a snap cap shouldnt I be able to do it again by just pulling the trigger if its dao? I have to use the slide to #### it again so how are they dao?
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Double action refers to the number of movements involved in discharging the firearm, it has nothing to do with whether or not the system will reset itself when not being fired. Glocks or any other striker fired DAO pistol do not operate in the traditional sense that a DAO pistol does.

TDC
 
beetlejuice said:
I still dont understand how glocks are dao. If i dry fire on a snap cap shouldnt I be able to do it again by just pulling the trigger if its dao? I have to use the slide to #### it again so how are they dao?
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They aren't. This pretty much covers it.

h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_%28firearms%29
h ttp://hunting.about.com/od/guns/g/glossary_double_action.htm
 
relliott said:
They aren't. This pretty much covers it.

h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trigger_%28firearms%29
h ttp://hunting.about.com/od/guns/g/glossary_double_action.htm
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I like a man of few words.:D You realize of course you are offending the garu god when you state the obvious.

Take Care

Bob
 
just like the RCMP 5946 is DAO, but doesn't have a restrike capability, even with it having an exposed hammer.
 
ok why would you want a restrike capability.... who would honestly depend on the second strike working ? go into your tap/rack/bang clearence drill and getthe gun up and running.... not sit there and go *click* *click* *click*

cause as soon as you add a "second strike" capability you know some dumbass is going to die with his gun basically empty (picture revolver shooters clicking on fired chambers)
 
TIM_COX said:
ok why would you want a restrike capability.... who would honestly depend on the second strike working ? go into your tap/rack/bang clearence drill and getthe gun up and running.... not sit there and go *click* *click* *click*

cause as soon as you add a "second strike" capability you know some dumbass is going to die with his gun basically empty (picture revolver shooters clicking on fired chambers)
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I don't think he's referring to the tactical efficacy (or not) of second strike capability. It's more about the definition of double action.
 
TDC said:
Change of plans in life.



I'm not sure you understand. Unless you have decided to shoot something, anything. There is no reason to have your finger on the trigger. This is pretty basic firearms safety. Perhaps you are referring to such instances like engaging multiple targets and sweeping your pistol from one to the other with your finger on the trigger?

TDC
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Well, personally, when I field strip my glock at home, I haven't decided to shoot the floor when I pull the trigger...I've decided that if all my checking has somehow failed, that in the worst case scenario I'm shooting in a safe direction.

If you're deciding to shoot your floor or whatever every time you field strip your glock, do you get your eye and hearing protection on and then get confused when the gun doesn't go off? And should you maybe inform the police of your decision to repeatedly shoot restricted firearms somewhere other than at an approved range? It's lucky they haven't been loaded yet (I assume, although I'm told all firearms always are, so I guess you have a pretty mangled floor by now) or you would be in a bit of trouble, what with your actual intention to go shooting. At least in my case, there is no intent to shoot...

Or are you actually not deciding to shoot the floor, just deciding that if you do shoot the floor, it won't be the end of the world, and that is why you're pointing in a safe direction?

When I decide to shoot something, I expect it to have a hole afterward and if it doesn't, that means something went wrong. The difference when I strip a glock is that I don't EXPECT the floor to have a hole, I'm just willing to live with myself if it does.
 
misanthropist said:
Well, personally, when I field strip my glock at home, I haven't decided to shoot the floor when I pull the trigger...I've decided that if all my checking has somehow failed, that in the worst case scenario I'm shooting in a safe direction.

If you're deciding to shoot your floor or whatever every time you field strip your glock, do you get your eye and hearing protection on and then get confused when the gun doesn't go off? And should you maybe inform the police of your decision to repeatedly shoot restricted firearms somewhere other than at an approved range? It's lucky they haven't been loaded yet (I assume, although I'm told all firearms always are, so I guess you have a pretty mangled floor by now) or you would be in a bit of trouble, what with your actual intention to go shooting. At least in my case, there is no intent to shoot...

Or are you actually not deciding to shoot the floor, just deciding that if you do shoot the floor, it won't be the end of the world, and that is why you're pointing in a safe direction?

When I decide to shoot something, I expect it to have a hole afterward and if it doesn't, that means something went wrong. The difference when I strip a glock is that I don't EXPECT the floor to have a hole, I'm just willing to live with myself if it does.
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Like so many, you have no understanding of the fundamental four. Let me dumb it down so we can all follow along.

When you point/direct a firearm at ANYTHING it should be done with the understanding that YOU are responsible for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING a projectile(or projectiles) strikes SHOULD the firearm fire. What you point a firearm at is determined by YOU, what you decide to shoot at(whether dry fire or live fire) is done under the pretense that YOU have made the CONSCIOUS DECISION TO FIRE. When I handle or field strip any firearm I ACCEPT the RESPONSIBILITY of any damage caused by said firearm to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that crosses the muzzle. This would include the floor, the ceiling, the apartment next door, your feet, your dog, your mother, your T.V. etc etc. Should YOU not be comfortable with accepting this RESPONSIBILITY you should NOT be handling the firearm.

Clearing a firearm is always a good idea, relying on that action to render a firearm "safe" is foolish. Ignorant actions from the operator that violate the FF are what cause negligent discharges and injuries, not firearms.

A "safe direction" is a poor choice of words. An "acceptable target and/or backstop" is a more accurate description of where you must point a firearm at all times.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Like so many, you have no understanding of the fundamental four. Let me dumb it down so we can all follow along.

When you point/direct a firearm at ANYTHING it should be done with the understanding that YOU are responsible for ANYTHING and EVERYTHING a projectile(or projectiles) strikes SHOULD the firearm fire. What you point a firearm at is determined by YOU, what you decide to shoot at(whether dry fire or live fire) is done under the pretense that YOU have made the CONSCIOUS DECISION TO FIRE. When I handle or field strip any firearm I ACCEPT the RESPONSIBILITY of any damage caused by said firearm to ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that crosses the muzzle. This would include the floor, the ceiling, the apartment next door, your feet, your dog, your mother, your T.V. etc etc. Should YOU not be comfortable with accepting this RESPONSIBILITY you should NOT be handling the firearm.

Clearing a firearm is always a good idea, relying on that action to render a firearm "safe" is foolish. Ignorant actions from the operator that violate the FF are what cause negligent discharges and injuries, not firearms.

A "safe direction" is a poor choice of words. An "acceptable target and/or backstop" is a more accurate description of where you must point a firearm at all times.

TDC
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I don't think that my not deciding to shoot something makes me less responsible for the bullet that potentially could come out of the gun...I think you don't understand that deciding to act, and taking responsibility for an action, are two different things.

The whole point of my approach is that I'm aware of what I am pointing at, and taking responsibility for whatever is about to get holed IF THINGS GO WRONG.

But that is different than deciding to shoot it.

If you have decided to shoot your floor, you WANT a hole in the floor and whatever is underneath. You have decided you're going to shoot it. If things go wrong, there ISN'T a hole. Why is there no hole? You decided you were going to shoot the floor. When you dry fire, why aren't you punching holes? You've decided you were going to shoot the backstop or the floor or whatever. Is your gun broken? Why aren't you fixing it?

The fact is, you HAVEN'T decided to shoot. That would be a) loud and b) often criminal, unless you're doing it at a range.

You've decided that you will take responsibility if the gun DOES go off, despite your best efforts.

And if you can't wrap your head around that, well, I don't think it's me that shouldn't be handling guns.
 
misanthropist said:
I don't think that my not deciding to shoot something makes me less responsible for the bullet that potentially could come out of the gun...I think you don't understand that deciding to act, and taking responsibility for an action, are two different things.

The whole point of my approach is that I'm aware of what I am pointing at, and taking responsibility for whatever is about to get holed IF THINGS GO WRONG.

But that is different than deciding to shoot it.

If you have decided to shoot your floor, you WANT a hole in the floor and whatever is underneath. You have decided you're going to shoot it. If things go wrong, there ISN'T a hole. Why is there no hole? You decided you were going to shoot the floor. When you dry fire, why aren't you punching holes? You've decided you were going to shoot the backstop or the floor or whatever. Is your gun broken? Why aren't you fixing it?

The fact is, you HAVEN'T decided to shoot. That would be a) loud and b) often criminal, unless you're doing it at a range.

You've decided that you will take responsibility if the gun DOES go off, despite your best efforts.

And if you can't wrap your head around that, well, I don't think it's me that shouldn't be handling guns.
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The end.
 
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