Wasn't a clip on bipod part of the equipment for an M16A1?
USMC to get rid of M249?
- Thread starter drache
- Start date
Wasn't a clip on bipod part of the equipment for an M16A1?
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Yeah, that sounds like the Marines, always finding a way to get what they want.
The one I was thinking about was the CMG-2 by colt, heavy barrel ,belt fed M16.
The one I was thinking about was the CMG-2 by colt, heavy barrel ,belt fed M16.
Colt and Colt and Diemaco offered this open bolt thing, but the M249 beat it:
Looks too airsoft for the USMC.
Anyway, sounds like they might be replacing the M4 with HK in easy stages
.
Northman999
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Yukon
I'd rather have the M249 in a real theatre, for sure.
I don't buy the accuracy thing either. When I was a C-9 gunner, I could put a five round burst into the opening on a coffee mug at 100 meters on a decent day at the range. How much accuracy do you need above that? That's a five round burst IN THE HEAD out to about 200 meters on a bad guy... On a good day, a good C-9 gunner can shoot 5 found bursts tighter than a typical 5 round group fired from a random rifleman off the line.
As for the weight thing, well yes, a 'real' machinegun is going to weight more than an automatic carbine, period.
And being able to switch barrels super fast; a good thing. I don't understand having a designated high-rate-of-fire weapon that cannot be fired at a high rate...
I don't buy the accuracy thing either. When I was a C-9 gunner, I could put a five round burst into the opening on a coffee mug at 100 meters on a decent day at the range. How much accuracy do you need above that? That's a five round burst IN THE HEAD out to about 200 meters on a bad guy... On a good day, a good C-9 gunner can shoot 5 found bursts tighter than a typical 5 round group fired from a random rifleman off the line.
As for the weight thing, well yes, a 'real' machinegun is going to weight more than an automatic carbine, period.
And being able to switch barrels super fast; a good thing. I don't understand having a designated high-rate-of-fire weapon that cannot be fired at a high rate...
Keep in mind the Corp uses the M249 as a light suppression weapon.. replacing it with an automatic rifle ( albeit with high capacity mags ) makes some sense when you add in the fact that the Corps field the M240 in most infantry units as well..
so to me it looks as if they are going to compliment the M240 with an automatic rifle, that still functions as an assault rifle, alleviating the disadvantages that the M249 had ( Weight and accuracy )
That said.. it still seems to be a half measure as there is no way to easily change the barrell.. i understand that having a QD barrel takes its toll on the accuracy side, but the ACR and SCAR ?? ( may be mistaken ) have the ability to quickly swap out barrels, why could that not be incorperated in the M27, is my main question
so to me it looks as if they are going to compliment the M240 with an automatic rifle, that still functions as an assault rifle, alleviating the disadvantages that the M249 had ( Weight and accuracy )
That said.. it still seems to be a half measure as there is no way to easily change the barrell.. i understand that having a QD barrel takes its toll on the accuracy side, but the ACR and SCAR ?? ( may be mistaken ) have the ability to quickly swap out barrels, why could that not be incorperated in the M27, is my main question
The BAR is dead, long live the BAR 
They're trying to solve a simple problem: the guy M249 can't keep up with the guys with the M16s.
The BAR solved the problem something like 90 years ago and the HK 416 with HBAR will do the same.
It's not a remplacement for the M249 which is a machine gun but it's a mobile automatic rifle which can keep up with the fire team.
When dealing with light infantry, the USMC wants mobility and availability not fire power.
They're trying to solve a simple problem: the guy M249 can't keep up with the guys with the M16s.
The BAR solved the problem something like 90 years ago and the HK 416 with HBAR will do the same.
It's not a remplacement for the M249 which is a machine gun but it's a mobile automatic rifle which can keep up with the fire team.
When dealing with light infantry, the USMC wants mobility and availability not fire power.
Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
The IAR is far more accurate than the M249 and hits count.
The Marines came to a few conclusions.
If you shoot the enemy from distance you don't have to advance on his position to kill him.
Shooting the enemy is more effective at suppressing said enemy than shooting around him.
Every round fired hits something or someone, misses included. Shooting the S**t out of everything is a good way to prolong or lose an insurgency.
The Marines came to a few conclusions.
If you shoot the enemy from distance you don't have to advance on his position to kill him.
Shooting the enemy is more effective at suppressing said enemy than shooting around him.
Every round fired hits something or someone, misses included. Shooting the S**t out of everything is a good way to prolong or lose an insurgency.
USMC can't get a new assault rifle like the Navy SEAL and Army Special Forces (both used HK M416) but they can equip 1000s of their marines with a HK M416 derived automatic rifle
Don't be surprised of some squads find a loophole to have 100% of automatic rifles!
heavenIsAlie
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Abbotsford
this is what i was thinking, just seems like they are going to buy them, find out it doesnt work and put the m249 back into service and keep the new guns out there as well.
The litle M249 is in itself a bit of a niche weapon left over from the cold war section model. When speed and momentum needs to be maintained, they act as a boat anchor. Utilizing them in a firebase role is a bit of a question mark- kind of a poor choice if you have M240s to go to.
I suppose they make a decent choice for the defensive, O.P.s, vehicle use.
I suppose they make a decent choice for the defensive, O.P.s, vehicle use.
CarbineOne
Regular
Heavy sustained fire.... from a 5.56mm gun?
Lighter, more mobile gun makes more sense.
Not to mention there are 2 M27's of them for every 1 M249 they take away. Two M27's have at least equal firepower to an M249, with the advantage of engagement two targets simultaneously... and not sacrificing any riflemen to do so. Whether they will actually use them as such is to be seen...
Lighter, more mobile gun makes more sense.
Not to mention there are 2 M27's of them for every 1 M249 they take away. Two M27's have at least equal firepower to an M249, with the advantage of engagement two targets simultaneously... and not sacrificing any riflemen to do so. Whether they will actually use them as such is to be seen...
Speaking as a leftover from the cold war, what is the new model? The gun group used to suppress while the rifle group close assaulted in section attacks, what is the new way?
Anyway, they aren't replacing the SAW, they are eliminating it and going back to something like the M14 model where 2 guys in the squad have a bipod and a full auto switch on a similar rifle to everybody else. Gas piston aside.
(1) This is what happens when the USMC demands for its own toys, instead of getting hand-me-downs that have been battle-tested by other forces....
...Osprey, anybody ?
(2) I know the Corps like to think "every man a rifleman"
, but machinegunners ought to be machinegunners....
...history is strewn with examples of failures to provide sufficient sustained-fire (belt-fed) firearms at the infantry squad level, no ?
...Osprey, anybody ? (2) I know the Corps like to think "every man a rifleman"
, but machinegunners ought to be machinegunners.......history is strewn with examples of failures to provide sufficient sustained-fire (belt-fed) firearms at the infantry squad level, no ?
Or maybe they could have saved a lot of money and upgrade the SAW as we did (and US Army) with the C9..
Folding stock, or retractable stock, vertical foregrip, rails, short barrel (while keeping the long barrel for when it's required), various other crap
I have always believed that an area weapon (C6/C9) had more to it that hitting the target. It also provide a large amount of fire, to keep the enemy down, while our troops adopt an appropriate posture (either firing positions or assaulting the enemy position).
It's not about grouping on a range against a paper target. When targets shots back, people tend to have a different perspective
As others said, I hope they keep the M249 well stored...
Folding stock, or retractable stock, vertical foregrip, rails, short barrel (while keeping the long barrel for when it's required), various other crap
I have always believed that an area weapon (C6/C9) had more to it that hitting the target. It also provide a large amount of fire, to keep the enemy down, while our troops adopt an appropriate posture (either firing positions or assaulting the enemy position).
It's not about grouping on a range against a paper target. When targets shots back, people tend to have a different perspective
As others said, I hope they keep the M249 well stored...
Starscream
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Not to mention reducing belt size to 100 rounds instead of 200.
And the marines may be trying also hold out for the newer LSAT weapons too. CTA seems to be the next big thing, assuming they can get the things to work.
Meh. The C9/M249/Minimi are past their service life and need to be replaced.
I would bemoan the lack of belt fed capacity in the replacement, but there is a thread on LF that went into some good details as to why this is the right fit for the USMC. Never mind that the M249 will be kept for use at the Coy level, as previously stated.
Having fondled a Stoner LMG at the KAC plant, I would really like to see it compete for the C9 replacement. It was light (Lighter than my AR10 unloaded) and you could barely tell the thing had been fired, even though it apparently had over 500 000 rounds through it.
I would bemoan the lack of belt fed capacity in the replacement, but there is a thread on LF that went into some good details as to why this is the right fit for the USMC. Never mind that the M249 will be kept for use at the Coy level, as previously stated.
Having fondled a Stoner LMG at the KAC plant, I would really like to see it compete for the C9 replacement. It was light (Lighter than my AR10 unloaded) and you could barely tell the thing had been fired, even though it apparently had over 500 000 rounds through it.
