USP can it compete in Standard?

USP

USP

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Hey, I shot my first mini match last weekend. I have decided that I am basically #### when shooting double action. Maybe its the transition from double to single I dont like. So I have decided to not shoot production but have been using my USP 9mm with safety on cocked and locked to shoot Standard. I was wondering as everybody seems to have an STi or something else along those lines..Can I be competetive with the USP in this division? Anybody else using stuff like this in Standard? I dont want to shoot my .45 as its to pricey. Thanks
 
The main disadvantage with using your USP 9mm in Standard is that you will be scored "minor".

My $0.02 is to practice/dry fire more and learn to shoot the USP's DA/SA in Production instead of switching to Standard.
 
u can shoot standard no problem....just minor.

it can be competitive...depends on the shooter.

there is a member of IPSC ON that uses a customized 40.
 
ok... Ill try it for abit...I suppose I could always move up to a Tactical in .40 later on...

After mabye 4K in rounds through this thing...Im really starting to like the grips...seems easy to draw... for awhile I was sort of iffy bout the plastic pebbling..
 
USP said:
I have decided that I am basically s**t when shooting double action. Maybe its the transition from double to single I dont like. So I have decided to not shoot production
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hmmm.... none of the 5'1"-5'5", 110-130lb girl shooters from hart house seem to have a huge problem shooting DA/SA guns in IPSC (Sig, CZ, etc). Could it be that you simply didn't bother practicing it at all? Before this mini-match, how many times did you practice draw and fire 2 shots, with the first one being DA? 50? 100? 150? or more like 2? ;)

Just practice and you'll be fine. After all, this is Production ;) You want a 1.5lb trigger, get an Open race gun. You want to shoot a duty gun, you'll need to get over the fear so many people have of any trigger over 3lb.
 
lol... Fug it Ill shoot standard and see how I do... Yeah its not the trigger weight..I can shoot DA pretty well...but its the transition that seems to screw me up..the second shot is crap..

Ive shot a few less than 3lb triggers and generally dont care for them much..

you got a point though.. I have maybe shot it 100 times DA..and out of the maybe 4K rounds through it.
 
dry fire dry fire dry fire. even in SA mode, dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. you cannot do too much dry fire (so long as you do it right that is).
to be honest the USP is a fine gun, but not really competitive in any division. Yes in the right hands it could be, but there is a reason why you see the top shooters only using certain guns in each of the divisions. If HK was to hire someone like Leatham or Jarret, or Sevigny I am sure they could make the USP sing, but I doubt you'll see any up and comer dominate with one. However maybe you're that rare guy? all it takes is practice, lots of practice, and I'd love to be proven wrong.
 
usually the problem with the transition from DA to SA comes because the grip for a comfortable DA shot is different that that for a SA shot. If you draw and present and then start your DA pull, you will then want to reposition your hand for the second and subsequent shots, but because the clock is running you end up doing 2 things at once and neither well. ( I have very little and long ago experience shooting a HK so this is based on other DA/SA guns). So in addition to the dry-fire DA practice to smooth up your pull, there is basically 2 ways to shoot and deal with the transition at your level. One is to make the 1st shot a throw away, get the gun up fast, forget about a perfect sight picture, get the DA shot out of the way and get the gun repositioned for SA shooting. The other is to start prepping the trigger as you are pushing the gun out onto target, and as you are doing this, shift your hand to its SA position. When the gun is on target, the trigger is depressed to approx it SA position and your hand is in its position to continue in SA mode. This does fly counter to most training which teaches to have your good grip before drawing, and you might want to practice over carpet at first.

of course YMMV, IMHO, TAYOR, blah, blah, blah
 
What IPSC1 said.

and what the others said.

Give production a try, you just started. The DA shot on the USP is compromised by not properly lubricating the Hammer strut and the top of the strut where it rubs under the hammer. The USP CUstom sport has a better trigger than the regular usp, the hammer spring and trigger return spring is lighter/softer.
Prep as you are coming on to target, or at close distances it may not mean as much, but at long distances the follow thru has to be perfect for good hits.
Also where the trigger bar should be completely lubed. The SA on my USP CS is just great. The DA is better than a regular USP. AS your round count goes up, the gritty-ness will be reduced in a regular usp. Get a Dyfire snap cap, and dryfire until your finger is sore, then do it some more. All the while getting a perfect sight picture right thru the DA press. I did so much dryfire I actually broke a couple snap caps. Try balancing an empty case on slide as you press thru. If it falls off you are lacking finger strength or are gripping to tight possibly. Try to keep the case from moving at all.
You will be severely out gunned in standard. If you had a USP expert in .40 with all the add ons (funnel, fibre optic), etc... that would at least give you a fighting chance. IN standard the STI/ SVI type are king.
 
We had a a couple of.40 USP Expert here who where A grade shotoers in standard. When they transitioned to STIs they both broke Master at their next match.

One of my mates shoots a USP 9mm, cocked and locked in standard. He's a commando and wants to emulate what he does for work. He consistently shoots a high C grade, although he only shoots occasionally.

I guess what I'm saying is that you can shoot a USP in SD, you can do reasonably well with it, but you'll do better with an STI/SVI or Bul M5.

I'd suggest getting an LEM trigger module and shooting that in PD. it effectively removes the DA first shot, makes the trigger more like a Glock in operation/feel.
 
USP said:
Can I be competetive with the USP in this division?
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If you want to "win" get a "gun" designed for "the game". If you want to improve your skills with a particular weapon, use that particular gun. Why not see how good you can get in production with something like a G17 etc.? The 9mm ammo is cheap, practice a lot, when you get all A's increase your speed.
This is how you can improve your skills with a "service" or "home defence" type weapon. (which I think was the original intent of the IPSC IDPA type sports)
 
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Look at it this way - if you don't care about scores, shoot however/whatever way you like it. Division specification only determines whose scores yours get compared to, everyone shoots the same thing.

if you DO care about scores, if you shoot that gun in Prod, you might have 1 bad shot per stage, in which case you take 1 extra shot. If you shoot it in Std, you'll be at a disadvantage for every shot and every mag change.

it's a pretty easy choice, isn't it? ;) Again, it all depends on how much, if at all, you care about the percentage or the letter which appears next to your name.
 
again it comes down to the shooter, not so much the gear you use. Put a nice STI in the hands of a novice, you will get novice results. Practice; practice things that cost time, like your draw, your mag changes, shooting around ports, long distance splits, metal plates, etc.....
 
From Ernest Langdon,

FEAR NOT, THE DOUBLE ACTION SHOT!

By Ernest Langdon

The traditional double action pistol, long feared by the competitive shooter, is quickly becoming a force to be reckoned with in some types of competitive pistol shooting. With the growing popularity of IDPA and the new Production Class in IPSC, the double action pistol is becoming a popular option for competitive shooters around the globe.
But, there has long been a stigma associated with the double action pistol. It has seen very little action in mainstream competition. When you ask shooters why they don’t shoot a double action in competition there are two main reasons that come up. First, it is too hard or too slow to shoot a double action first shot. Second, they don’t like having two different trigger pulls. Lets focus on the first reason for now, the dreaded double action first shot.
To develop speed and accuracy with the double action trigger we need to start with accuracy. The speed will mean nothing if you don’t hit the target. Start by shooting groups in double action only. Your group size and the location of the groups should be the same as your single action groups; that’s the goal anyway. Some shooters will find that with proper technique they can shoot a tighter group in double action than in single action.
The key to double action accuracy is keeping the trigger moving. Don’t try and stage the trigger to the point right before the hammer drops. This is a bad habit and will cause what is often called “Now Syndrome”!! This is when the shooter stages or preps the trigger to the point right before it is going to break, then cleans up the sight picture so it is perfect and tries to make the shot break “NOW”. The “Now Syndrome” almost always causes the sights and the shot to move off the intended target. Keep the sights in your “aiming area” and keep the trigger moving. (Obviously, if the sights move way off or out of your aiming area, stop pulling the trigger.) Try and think of the trigger pull as a “ trigger stroke”, and pull through with one smooth stroke of the trigger.
At first, shoot at a close target that is fairly large, maybe seven or ten yards and try for a group. As your groups get smaller, move the target back. Don’t be afraid to shoot groups at fifty yards or more. It can’t hurt.
Once you’re confident with your ability to make an accurate double action shot, pick up the pace. Start working on the time it takes to “pull through” the double action trigger stroke. Remember, speed means nothing if you miss the target.
The next step is to start working back to the holster. That’s right, work back to the holster, not from the holster. The next thing to work on is the presentation of the pistol to the target. Start from what is normally called the ready position. This is the point in the draw where the hands come together, just off center to the strong side at the upper part of your abdomen.
At this point the pistol should be pointed at the target and the trigger finger is still off the trigger. From this point forward is where you start to gain speed with the double action first shot. From this ready position, every effort should be made to drive the pistol directly to the target. Imagine there is a laser coming out of the barrel and try and put that laser on the target and keep it there until that first shot breaks. (If you have a laser available it can be a great training tool). As the pistol starts to move forward you should be able to pick up the position of the muzzle in your peripheral vision. As soon as you can see that the muzzle is on target, start pulling the trigger. This is where the speed of the first shot comes from. As the pistol goes out, the trigger comes back. Now it becomes a timing issue. As the pistol goes forward and comes up to your line of sight, you are trying to pull the trigger so that the hammer falls just as you clean up the sight picture. The last one to two inches of the presentation the sights should be almost perfect so if the shot breaks a little early you’re still going to hit the target. This is really no different than what most top shooters do with a single action pistol. They prep the trigger on the way out to the target and try and break the shot just as they clean up the sight picture.
With practice you will find that you can be very aggressive on close targets. Because you can have a lot of deviation in your sight alignment on close targets, you can break the shot very early in the draw stroke with all the accuracy that you need.
Once you feel comfortable with working from the ready position you can start working from the holster. Just like the double action trigger pull, think of the draw as a smooth stroke. Now all you have to do is combine the “draw stroke” with the “trigger stroke” and you will be nailing sub one-second draws in no time.
Once you master the double action first shot you will find you can shoot the traditional double action pistol with a great deal of speed and accuracy. It’s up to you, so get out there and start shooting.
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thanks for the articles and the advice... Ive got another match this weekend. So hopefully I dont end up looking like somebody from the meat counter at the supermarket..lol..

Damn I need to shoot bout 500 rounds a week for practice.
 
I usually only have time for 250 300 rds per week in the summer months,..if that! Dryfire will help a lot.
 
maurice said:
again it comes down to the shooter, not so much the gear you use. Put a nice STI in the hands of a novice, you will get novice results. Practice; practice things that cost time, like your draw, your mag changes, shooting around ports, long distance splits, metal plates, etc.....
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Hey I don't agree the STI will make you better :D ;) :p :p :p
 
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