USP Variant 1/2 Action in other pistols?

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mini15

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I've been reading a lot about the USP type pistol lately, in the H&K world everyone is talking about the LEM or the light DAO type models.

The USP variant 1/2 is a DA/SA gun. It has the re-strike ability of a double action but it allows the gun to be cocked and locked in SAO mode. So if you want to, you can run it in SAO all the time, forever.

If you don't want to have to flip a thumb safety before you fire/if you think it's a draw back you can press the thumb safety further and it de-cocks like every other DA/SA gun and then you have the standard double action first trigger pull and SAO after that, no safety to deal with. So just like some striker fired pistols, where you have to deal with the first shot and once you learn the reset it's all good, the second shot and those thereafter are good to go without any slack in the trigger because they are SAO.

Unless I'm overlooking something how is this not the best type of action in the world?

People moved away from SAO to DA/SA because they didn't want to carry cocked and locked or without one in the chamber.
People moved away from DA/SA to DAO because they wanted consistency.
People moved away from DAO to "Safe Action"/other striker fired systems because they wanted consistency without an extensively long/heavy trigger pull.

From what I can tell this Variant 1/2 gives you all the advantages of each system in one package without reinventing the wheel.


Are there any other guns that use this system? Is there some pitfall or something I'm overlooking with this system?
 
HK has gone one step farther and made a CDA hybrid. (Combat Defense Action) It is CDA with a decocker. You get light consistent CDA trigger pull, full double action if you have a FTF, manual decocking and a spurred hammer so you can manually #### the hammer also. There is no manual safety. It is Variant 0 on the P2000 and P30 models

P2000 (--) CDA/DA
Safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the hammer, with spur for firing in the CDA/DA modes. Central decocking latch. Trigger pull CDA 20N (5 lbs)/DA 50N (11 lbs)

P30 (V0) CDA/DA
Safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the hammer, with spur for firing in the CDA/DA modes. Central dococking latch. Trigger pull CDA 20N (5 lbs)/DA 50N (11 lbs)

I have the P2000 V1 CDA:
P2000 (V1) CDA
Safety trigger with concealed cocking piece in the hammer, without spur. Constant trigger pull (Combat Defense Action) of 20N (5 lbs) from the first round to the last. No decocking.
 
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The CDA/LEM also have the restrike capability, it internally cocks the hammer for a very light albeit long initial trigger pull, with no ability to decock, however if it does not light the primer, you can refire with the standard dao trigger weight of 10lbs or so.
 
Are these pistols striker fired or traditional hammer & firing pin?

The thing that gets me with variant 1 is that it is a DA/SA that can be locked/used SAO. From what I understand, LEM/CDA is not an SA type trigger, it isn't that short, never rest your finger on it, touch to fire type trigger.

Single action is by far the best type of trigger you can get, having a DA/SA that can be carried condition one but with re-strike and the ability to carry without safety just gives you options. Yet this design doesn't seem to have ever taken off.

All the hate on DA/SA guns for the first pull yet the most important part to learning to shoot a Glock or similar pistol is to learn the "reset", so you only take up all the slack/pre-travel on your first shot.

With a Variant 1/2 type action, you could be SAO with safety and never have to worry about any "reset" or first shot slack, or be in DA/SA and you only have to deal with it ever on the first shot. A "Safe Action" type mechanism you have consistency but if you miss the reset even only ONCE, you'd be better off with a DA/SA.
 
mini15 said:
Are these pistols striker fired or traditional hammer & firing pin?

The thing that gets me with variant 1 is that it is a DA/SA that can be locked/used SAO. From what I understand, LEM/CDA is not an SA type trigger, it isn't that short, never rest your finger on it, touch to fire type trigger.

Single action is by far the best type of trigger you can get, having a DA/SA that can be carried condition one but with re-strike and the ability to carry without safety just gives you options. Yet this design doesn't seem to have ever taken off.

All the hate on DA/SA guns for the first pull yet the most important part to learning to shoot a Glock or similar pistol is to learn the "reset", so you only take up all the slack/pre-travel on your first shot.

With a Variant 1/2 type action, you could be SAO with safety and never have to worry about any "reset" or first shot slack, or be in DA/SA and you only have to deal with it ever on the first shot. A "Safe Action" type mechanism you have consistency but if you miss the reset even only ONCE, you'd be better off with a DA/SA.
Click to expand...

All current production HK pistols are hammer fired. There is leaked pictures and rumours of a striker fired hk coming out soon, but as of now, every production HK is exposed external hammer fired.

The LEM/CDA from the end user perspective is a lot like a glock trigger, 14mm initial travel, long but light pull(at least in light mode), 7mm reset distance. In my opinion it is too long a reset but it was done for a government requirement as the part of a contract.

My problem with DA/SA is the two separate trigger pull weights to learn, and single action pull is very light with a very small travel distance so there is a greater risk of NDs. LEM is a long pull not quite light as a true single action(lightest is 4.0lbs IIRC, thats what the P30L I have has) but it's also a long travel so it gives a wider margin of safety(not much) against ND. Again that's my thoughts on why SAO pistols are carried with a safety on I could be wrong. Me? I personally dislike having to figure out 2 trigger pulls, and if I will be running it SAO I might as well go LEM.
 
That's the thing, but isn't learning the whole "reset" concept of a Safe Action type gun basically learning two trigger pulls?

I can't see why in theory a striker fired gun can't have that godly single action trigger. Other designs with fully cocked striker, the only action pulling the trigger would do is release the striker.

The pre-travel is what gets me with LEM/CDA, I'm sure that just like Glock it can be removed but that would be at the expense of having to have a manual safety.

Looking at my Glock internals, I could eliminate pre-travel/"slack" in the trigger a number of ways, all of those would override the firing pin safety, while taking up the initial slack does nothing in terms of moving the firing pin, it actuates on the firing pin safety plunger. Without the initial slack/pre-travel the FPS would constantly be off. Many other pistols work just like this, mostly because they copied the design in some way due to it's success.

The Walther PPQ from what I can dig up is a single action striker fired pistol.
 
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