These are not low-end AK's. They are one of the best built versions IMHO, (Next to the Galil which is based on the valmet)They arent sniper rifles by any means (although I do have an M78/83S sniper) and I dont have much experience with other AK's other than vegas at close range full auto and in Vietnam (not the war, my vacation) but minute of pop can at 100 yards is pretty typical in my experience with the .308 M78's
Valmets
- Thread starter jdman
- Start date
When was the last date of manufacture by Valmet? International Patent law is only good for 20-25yrs from last date of patent filing in the case of non-written/non-artisitic materials. Unless they are still making it or can claim that it is a unique work of art (read, not mass made which would disqualify it), there would be no way to enforce it after 25 years from that date.
*** looked into the manu dates for the M78, last year they were production was 1986 so unless someone bought and maintained the patent, it could be free domain now ***
I'm in the process of searching WIPO to see if it's still maintained.
Well, turns out Valmet folded when it when through a corporate merger in 1987, now known as Metsu Forestry equipment. Bumble Bee Wholesale in California was the last known importer of anything Valmet. However Stoeger Industries was sold all import rights shortly after. Stoeger as we all know was sold to Sako, who in turn was later bought by Beretta....
Not sure if Beretta renewed the patent, but I'll look into it.
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That's hard to revert back to it's former self after converting it. The barrel on 2 of my hunters were threaded for flash hiders and the original rivet was drilled out on the bottom of the receivers to expose the hole for the AK trigger. One is a Galil Clone and the other is well on the way to being an M76 clone. Sure a new rivet is possible but very hard to match the original one but the barrel threading is the hard part. Im goin to have the barrel on the M76 clone shortened to 18.5" later because the M76 barrel is 17.something inches long i think. I don't know of too many AKs out there without a threaded muzzle. My next 3 projects will be converting 1 hunter to an AK74, 1 hunter to a Romak 3 PSL(Dragunov), and 1 hunter converting to a Valmet M71. I totally agree, the hunters are ugly and in my opinion they are only good for converting to cooler looking AK style clones...
I have some pics on my iPhone, not the greatest mind you. I will see if I can get them up on a website or something. I will advise on here the link. If not, I'll pm you for your email and I'll send you some pics. So far it's just a Galil and most of an M76 done. I appreciate all those interested in the Valmet so I don't mind at all sharing what little knowledge I do have. Most of my knowledge on this subject is from a couple years ago till now when I started collecting them. I have M71 parts and a .223 hunter rifle, just need a little time to get it under the knife. I have a bunch of AK74 parts and a PSL Dragunov type rifle parts kit on their way. I will need another .223 hunter for the AK74 build. That will be the ultimate build for me if I don't wreck it! An AK74 is my dream gun. Too bad it'll have to be .223, not 5.45x39 but that's probably as close as I can gets far as looks go.
nastybubba
Regular
- Location
- saskatchewan
there was one at the calgary gunshow going for close to 5G. is that the usual price for one. I have never seen one before. It looked like a over sized AK.
***Update***
So, after an exhausting WIPO search of patents filed or renewed by Beretta, Sako-Valmet OY (search Sako OY if you want to confirm) AND Stoeger Int'l, no patents regarding the M78 or any other Valmet action/receiver or bolt configuration have been filed all the way back to 1980.
Can someone confirm to me why this rifle is not able to be manufactured either in house or overseas since the patent is now considered open source? This is making no sense to me.
So, after an exhausting WIPO search of patents filed or renewed by Beretta, Sako-Valmet OY (search Sako OY if you want to confirm) AND Stoeger Int'l, no patents regarding the M78 or any other Valmet action/receiver or bolt configuration have been filed all the way back to 1980.
Can someone confirm to me why this rifle is not able to be manufactured either in house or overseas since the patent is now considered open source? This is making no sense to me.
The issue is not patents. It is that the RCMP may look at any Valmet M78 clone and state that it is not an M78 clone, it is an AK clone and prohibited. Personally I think it can be done but VERY careful attention will need to be paid from start to finish including any marketing and branding. Much like the LAR-10 magazines it depends very much what you say it is.
No, Beretta does not own the name, they own the manufacturing and import rights when they bought Sako and when they let the design patent expire all they retained was the right to import a rifle to the US that is no longer being manufactured (also prob why they let the design patent expire). Valmet was rebranded Valmet-oy by Metsu and they now only make parts for the auto and forestry industry. If anyone owned the name, it would be Metsu.
AK is right, it probably can be done, but it would have to be clearly delineated from the conventional AK. My understanding is that part of it has to do with the number of trigger pin holes and the trigger design of the Valmet as well as the receiver since it was milled rather than stamped, can anyone confirm this?
Valmets were manufactured with stamped and milled receivers. The major desing differance that seperates them form the run of the mill AK would be the gas tube and the way it mounts to the front of the receiver, be it milled or stamped with a trunion.
The only extra hole in the receiver is with the Hunter, it has a trigger relay bar due to the trigger position being moved back. This is apparent with the extra trigger pin hole toward the bottom and rear of the receiver.
The milled M76, M88/Hunter, M78 recievers are the same. The FRT lays out the key features and markings that are found on the Hunter and M78. If you were to stray from these details you would likely end up with an AK variant. Even their descriptions are pretty much the same.
Valmet firearms and Valmet heavy equipment were separated. Valmet firearms was merged with Sako, Beretta owns Sako. Call Beretta and ask them where they stand.
Seeing how my wife is an real Italian girl I should get her to call.
The only extra hole in the receiver is with the Hunter, it has a trigger relay bar due to the trigger position being moved back. This is apparent with the extra trigger pin hole toward the bottom and rear of the receiver.
The milled M76, M88/Hunter, M78 recievers are the same. The FRT lays out the key features and markings that are found on the Hunter and M78. If you were to stray from these details you would likely end up with an AK variant. Even their descriptions are pretty much the same.
Valmet firearms and Valmet heavy equipment were separated. Valmet firearms was merged with Sako, Beretta owns Sako. Call Beretta and ask them where they stand.
Seeing how my wife is an real Italian girl I should get her to call.
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P0WERWAGON
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- burnaby BC كافر
unless you get a factory in finland, that can sell the M78 as a Valmet made rifle, the RCMP will just laugh at you.
LOL
yeah lets wait till they stop having issues with the AR15's they have already been making before we take away their concentration.
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
Seconded.
