Value of a Shooter Garand?

This is very interesting. We have someone who took a bunch of parts, put them together with the obvious intention of selling the completed rifle, but I am wondering just what the quality of the finished product is. More important, is it safe?

Many of the parts available were decomissioned by the Military, and sold for scrap iron. This is because they were subjected to putting in a big pile, and being burned, thus bringing into question the structure of the steel.

Then we have the question of timing and headspacing. Putting together a rifle is NOT like assembling a tricycle for the neighbours kids, and there is a lot more involved than the simple assembling of various parts of different manufacturers. If you do not know what you are doing, there is 60,000 pounds per square inch of pressure that is six inches in front of your nose when you pull the trigger.

The next thing I do find a concern with is that this rifle, sold another two or three times, will probably be accepted as a genuine article instead of a parts gun, along with an appropriate story of course. If something breaks loose, who is going to be responsible for a possible injury caused by something assembled in a person's basement.

Now, before someone with a whole 25 posts starts flaming me, I will say that I have gunsmithed rifles since the 1960s, have taken a Millitary Armourers Course, and I presently have a 2000 square foot workshop complete with Welders, two metal lathes, a milling machine and two seven inch shapers, along with other things, along with appropriate tooling for rifles that I work on. I am also a retired Welder who has a Canadian Inter-provincial ticket, along with a "B" Pressure ticket, so I am quite familiar with steels and the affect of heat on them.

Just because someone with a whole 24 posts to his credit does not agree with another member, it is a poor excuse to resort to name calling and ridicule. Especially when the Member he does it to is a highly respected Member of this Forum whose knowledge is light years ahead of the ones doing the name calling.

SMELLIE, for the record, graduated from University with a degree in History. His University Thesis on Military Small Arms from 1812 to the Second Battle of Ypres is still quoted today. His contributions to "Cartridges of the World" are acknowledged by the author, and right now, some of his research papers are being used by the Smithsonian Institute as a reference for a project.

SMELLIE has visited the Pattern Room in England, while studying the Maxim machine guns, and while there sat down and wrote a complete operating Manual for the 1899 Maxim machine gun, using the reference notes he took with him. He is an acknowledged expert on the Lee Enfield System, the Ross rifle, and the Maxim machine gun.

He has been a Newspaper Editor, and conducted many interviews with WWI Veterans, and he owns his own small publishing company. His own personal Military firearms collection has in it weapons and models that 90% of the Members here have not even heard of.

SMELLIE, in his day, was one of the better target shooters in Canada. His scores were good enough to qualify him for Bisley, but like many of us, could not go because of financial reasons, where it would have cost us over two months wages for expenses. He was one of the shooting partners of William (Bisley) Brown, a six times member and three times Captain of Canada's Bisley team.

I wonder what the qualifications are of someone who calls a person like SMELLIE an "a**hole" and a "dink".
.

An armourers course doesn't make you a gunsmith, neither does being a welder.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put together a garand and check headspace. Maybe smellie was being sarchastic and maybe he was poking fun at me for "claiming" that I "built" a rifle. Sorry guess the proper term for some would be assembled. I guess unless you make every piece of something it doesn't count as building. I apologize for not being up to your standards. Oh and the purpose of the build was not to sell the gun but I want to build a bench rest gun and have all my funds tied up in the house I'm having built right now so something needs to go. Oh guess I won't be building the bench gun either just buying an action and barrel blank cutting the chamber and threads and screwing it together.
 
what is funny is somebody that register an account on CGN just to insult a respected member and is against hiding behind a computer... :yingyang:
 
If hes such a knowledgeable nice guy why did he not just leave constructive and helping comment for the op ? If you think that comment was not insulting learn how to read ,, He was being a #### to someone because they dont live and breathe milsurps .. This is called elitism , its rampant on CGN.. Is this site not here to help people that are getting into the sport and hobby ? or just to belittle people that are less knowledgeable?

An interesting observation to na1lb0hm's post. He condemns insulting, but then makes an insult by telling na1lb0hm "to learn how to read." Then he calls SMELLIE a "####" and ELITIST?

Well, I guess his whole 24 posts have given him a great insight into just how many people SMELLIE has helped and given information, knowledge and advice to.

But, to call SMELLIE and ELITIST? WOW. It is a wonder I can type, because I, and anyone else who really knows him, we are still rolling around on the floor laughing on that one.

I have to agree that taking an Armourers course is not gunsmithing, but when I took it, you made your own tools and guages. It does teach you to do things properly, and not just put things together. And, it did have a demanding short tempered individual who made sure you did just that.

But, who am I to comment on the vast knowledge gained by 24 posts on this Forum. After all, I am just an old fart who started shooting in the mid-1950s, quailfied for Bisley, shot at Camp Perry for the Wimbledon Cup on the 1000 yard Vaile range and did rather respectably there, and built (in the sense of the word "made from pieces of metal completely,") a series of triggers and other gun parts, designed a single shot varmint rifle that used 7 parts, (all made from scratch, of course,) threaded and chambered barrels, modified existing actions, and built gunstocks. Never said I was a Gunsmith or hung out a sign though. I guess I will just have to go back to the shop and start working on that 6mm/303 1905 Ross that I am playing around with.

Now, before someone comments that Ross did not make a 6mm/303 calibre rifle, you are right. But there is a small calibred barrel that was chambered by a home made chambering reamer, on a 1905 Ross action with a set of purpose made scope mounts on it in the shop right now that will get a bit of a workout on the Manitoba Coyotes pretty soon.

That is, if I can stop laughing about SMELLIE being termed an "ELITIST."

Laugh2
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Personalities and emotions aside, building/assembling a Garand or any other rifle from parts isn't rocket science, but it does require the proper tools and knowledge to ensure correct functionality, accuracy and safety with the end result.

For the aspiring Garand builder I recommend a thorough study of the Kuhnhausen Shop Manual on the Garand and M14 before getting into this. It is the best technical reference source on these rifles, bar none. The book contains many photos and illustrated diagrams and go/no go specs to help determine the servicability of virtually every part. The M1 Garand Complete Assembly Guide by Kulek is also useful.

For tooling the following are required. This is a considerable financial outlay, so is probably not cost effective unless a person is planning to do a number of builds;

- a correctly fitted barrel vice or fixture to hold the barrel stone stationary when turning the receiver off and on
- a properly fitted receiver wrench
- a set of headspace gauges
- a method of ensuring that the barrel is properly indexed to the receiver (Badger Ordnance makes the best alignment fixtures available)
- a pull through finishing reamer to set headspace when installing a new barrel

The following tools are desirable, but not essential;
- a dial type angle finder to check barrel indexing
- a bolt assembly/dis-assembly tool
 
Average price on the EE (like that is a indication of the market) is normally $1000 and up, but I have seen the odd one sell for $850 ( that one got snatched like a pie on a window sill) probably all been said before so nothing new there.

Also nice to see the standard WTF does Smellie know segment is back... hopefully he doesnt dive back into the sock closet again the milsurp section isnt the same without the old guard giving us young pups extra information and the always interesting stories of back in the day I enjoy them.

Very well then my dribble has been dribble on I shall now go back to my usual drooling over the nice things other people seem to find.
 
To the op. 3 things

1) Learn to have a little fun :)
2) Maybe Smellie was actually interested? (instead of jumping to conclusions)
3) To call Smellie a A@@hole or dink is wrong! There was a individuals father (who I know)had a stroke and Smellie ( who doesn't know this person from a hill of beans really) went out of his way to help this person understand strokes. So to call him a A@@hole or dink is way off kilter!!

This will be my only post in this thread as I will not respond to quotes or anything else!
As for you Garand I hope you acquire what you are asking and able to build your bench rifle:) Shooting is a fun sport we cant lose it :)

Cheers
Joe
 
SMELLIE, for the record, graduated from University with a degree in History. His University Thesis on Military Small Arms from 1812 to the Second Battle of Ypres is still quoted today. His contributions to "Cartridges of the World" are acknowledged by the author, and right now, some of his research papers are being used by the Smithsonian Institute as a reference for a project.

SMELLIE has visited the Pattern Room in England, while studying the Maxim machine guns, and while there sat down and wrote a complete operating Manual for the 1899 Maxim machine gun, using the reference notes he took with him. He is an acknowledged expert on the Lee Enfield System, the Ross rifle, and the Maxim machine gun.

He has been a Newspaper Editor, and conducted many interviews with WWI Veterans, and he owns his own small publishing company. His own personal Military firearms collection has in it weapons and models that 90% of the Members here have not even heard of.

SMELLIE, in his day, was one of the better target shooters in Canada. His scores were good enough to qualify him for Bisley, but like many of us, could not go because of financial reasons, where it would have cost us over two months wages for expenses. He was one of the shooting partners of William (Bisley) Brown, a six times member and three times Captain of Canada's Bisley team.

!......!......!!!!!
wow. i had no idea about all this.

(snip- cleanup)

These threads always turn into a straight up p*ssing contest.

Now back to the OP, Rob.

TBH, I think you could ballpark $800-1000 for your rifle in the EE section.
For someone to pay that though,(and us to guestimate) they would have to see pictures. ;)

The spare parts, such as bolt etc. are a big plus.
bolt - $70
rear sights can be anything from $40-120
if you have a spare op rod, that is where the coin lies.
Do you have anything like en blocs? or bandoleers?

If you think a tasteful armacoat will improve durability and selling chance, it IS a mismatch, just don't expect to recoup to much of the cost of that.

Also, like what buffdog said, verification from a credible gunsmith that the firearm is in working condition/safe could mean a little extra scratch in your wallet.
The worst that can happen is you put it up on the EE for too much and get annoyed by lowballers until you bring the price down, or price it a little to low and someone snaps it up in fifteen minutes.


just my 0.02, Good Luck on building your bench gun
 
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I'll bet Smellie was genuinely interested, and thought perhaps that the OP did indeed build it himself. The OP should have extended the benefit of doubt before tossing out an insult. That would have been the mature thing to do.

I have no words for Boss, but were I the OP, I am not sure I would appreciate him being on my side.
 
I recently sold a shooter grade M-1, through the EE. It was an ex-Dane, Springfield receiver and barrel, essentially as received from Denmark. It sold very quickly for $800. Maybe I could have squeezed more out of it.
The prices that M-1s bring these days makes me wish I had salted away a load of them, when they were cheap.

Unfortunately, there has been a level of rudeness and name calling in this thread that is unacceptable.
The topic is a legitimate one. It would be a shame if it were necessary to lock or delete it.
It would be a good thing if folks were clean up their posts.
 
The main thing to consider when assembling M1/M14 rifles is the receiver/barrel and bolt is head spaced and indexed. Get someone who knows how to do it and pay the price. They invested in the tools, so there is value in what they do. Most surplus parts are not "scrap" by definition. They are surplus to the needs of the government agency who owns them i.e. army, navy, air force ,marines, and foreign federal police agencies.The guns that the parts were for have been pulled out of service. Military Arms Dealers break up guns for parts because they are incomplete and don't want to spend the time to find additional parts to rebuild them. In some cases parts are worth more than the original value of the surplus gun because of condition.Poor condition barrelled receivers can contain all exc to mint parts. You can assemble these parts onto the proper assembled receiver/barrel and bolt.
 
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