Value of a very old Flintlock

J

jfchester

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Guys, A friend of mine have this old flintlock and he wonder now much he could get for it. Obviously this isn’t in good shape, but still might have some value.

I know that this is flintlock Model 1777 Brown Bess, .75 caliber, stamped on the key as "tower" (for its certification mark issued in the Tower of London) used by the Argentina army from 1810 to 1865. But we have no idea of the actual origins of this particular Flintlock.
Any help would be much appreciated.







 
The lockplate and all the visible parts appear to investment castings. Add to that that the bore would have been measured in inches, not millimeters - not that the calibre was ever put on any Brown Bess - and you can clearly detect a reproduction arm. Interesting to note that the date on the arm - 1777 - predates the adoption of the Metric System by some fourteen years...:cool:

The New Pattern Land musket was made from parts supplied by a multitude of small government contractors, and assembled in the Tower Armoury in the Tower of London, then the principle military arms cache in the country.

To see what a real one looks like, see - http://www.historicarmsgallery.co.uk/india-pattern-brown-bess-musket.html

If your pal's musket is more than twenty-five years old or thereabouts you may feed it to me for breakfast with the sauce of your choice.

tac
 
tacfoley said:
Please, PLEASE find me a Brown Bess for $2000....................................

tac
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Ask and you shall receive LOL

http://ww w.ima-usa.com/original-british-eic-p-1771-brown-bess-flintlock-musket-1770-80-s-dated-marked-lock.html

Or if you want to clean up one yourself...

http://ww w.ima-usa.com/original-british-eic-p-1771-third-model-brown-bess-flintlock-musket-untouched-condition.html

Or if you want to do it yourself kit.... (this is the one I am saving my pennies for)

http://ww w.ima-usa.com/british-eic-p-1771-brown-bess-flintlock-parts-set-1770-80-s-dated-marked-lock.html

And yes I have ordered from IMA (sniders and Martini henrys) they come up here no problem :)
 
My query was in the nature of a throwaway remark, rather than a crie de coeur. We don't see these type of arms in anything less than very fine to excellent condition here in UK - nobody would want a wreck. And kits are more trouble than they are worth, TTTT, since if you want to shoot it, it has to be licensed just like any modern-era replica.

In any case, this being the UK, getting one here from the USA or Canada is still fraught with attendant taxes - a recent purchase from another very kind Ontarian on this great site - a lovely old Mk1 Snider - cost me half as much again in taxes by the time it arrove on my doorstep.

Thanks for the research, though, I'll file it in my 'interesting info' collection.

tac in raining East Anglia.
 
Loyer said:
Nice repro. Probably worth about $200.
Click to expand...

Or less.

A quick Google search finds references to the manufacturer in Argentina, a "Fabrica Militar de Armes Portatiles Domingo Matheu at Rosario". Most of the results that came up were in Portugese, but using a translate function on your own search engine should get better info if you dig around a bit.

Might make a good plaything for someone willing to find and fit the rest of the parts it needs, and to clean it up. To the plus, it WAS actually made in a gun factory, instead of a back alley workshop in India.

Cheers
Trev
 
Until this thread, I had never heard of an Argentinian reproduction. It doesn't look too badly done. Should be possible to get the lock working. It would be an interesting project.
 
As if all the other things are not enough the "Black Powder (Only)" stamping on the barrel seen in the second picture certainly marks it as a modern reproduction. Anything not made in the last 150 years would not be stamped with such a warning.

If the bore is clean and not pitted I'd say that in the present condition it would bring in between $180 and $250 depending on the buyer. If it had the #### and flint clamp in place then it might bring in as much as $300 or a touch more depending on the buyers' motivation and the seller's patience for holding out against the lower offers.
 
BCRider said:
As if all the other things are not enough the "Black Powder (Only)" stamping on the barrel seen in the second picture certainly marks it as a modern reproduction. Anything not made in the last 150 years would not be stamped with such a warning.

If the bore is clean and not pitted I'd say that in the present condition it would bring in between $180 and $250 depending on the buyer. If it had the #### and flint clamp in place then it might bring in as much as $300 or a touch more depending on the buyers' motivation and the seller's patience for holding out against the lower offers.
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Really? You think that much? I wouldn't so much as slow down for a better look at it if it had a 3 digit price on it on a gun show table. Different strokes....

Looking at the frizzen in the picture, I would be surprised if it had ever been fired. Like as not, the hammer screw broke of during one of the very few times it was dropped, likely ending that particular adventure into BP shooting for the original owner.

Cheers
Trev
 
BCRider said:
As if all the other things are not enough the "Black Powder (Only)" stamping on the barrel
Click to expand...

D'oh. How could I have missed THAT?

Make it post 1965 or so, when mass-produced BP arms were flooding the market from Italy and Spain, and the Feds down there decided that to protect the public it was necessary to stamp a warning on the barrel of the arm.

Prior to that, it was just assumed that NOBODY would be stupid enough to load up a BP firearm with anything but BP...

tac
 
trevj said:
Really? You think that much? I wouldn't so much as slow down for a better look at it if it had a 3 digit price on it on a gun show table. Different strokes....

Looking at the frizzen in the picture, I would be surprised if it had ever been fired. Like as not, the hammer screw broke of during one of the very few times it was dropped, likely ending that particular adventure into BP shooting for the original owner.

Cheers
Trev
Click to expand...

Given the cost of even poor smoothbore Brown Bess guns I'd say that someone would consider it at such a price. It's still cheaper than the Indian made "decorator pieces". But if it didn't go fairly soon I'd be quick to start dropping the price until it did sell.

If I saw it on the table I'd be interested enough to ask the seller to remove the lock so I could check for the proper features in the lock. Things like a proper bridal plate and the little fly catch on the half #### notch are what I'd be looking for. Too many cheapies around that are missing one or the other and the lack of either makes both the short term and longer term functional reliability too much of a question.
 
There do not seem to be screws in either the sear or bridle positions, so the innards of the lock are unknown.
I do not recall ever seeing an original or reproduction musket sized lock with a fly in the tumbler.
 
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