Value of ACP223 vs. WS-MCR

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DoubleHox

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Hey everyone, I'm finally taking the plunge on a black rifle, and I'm wondering about the difference in value between a few options that are on the market. Specifically looking at both the ACP 223 and the WS-MCR.

I am looking for something that has longevity, but obviously want the most bang for my buck. From what I've been reading on these forums and others, is that nearly everyone has a problem with their WS-MCR after about 1000 rounds, even after making the recommended changes to components.

What I am wondering is if the $4k price tag of the ACP223 is justified in quality over the WS-MCR, is it really worth three times the money? I know there is some extra expense going into the WS-MCR to get it up and running. What's the consensus on this? Am I maybe overlooking other models with better profiles?
 
I have no direct experience with either other then handling a APC223 at CSC once. Over the years ive heard a few APC223 owners state they wernt satisfied considering its 4k+ price tag.

Id bet the MCR is waaay better bang for ur buck.
 
Murray 3-D said:
Id bet the MCR is waaay better bang for ur buck.
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It is the same argument people used to make about Norinco ARs vs not garbage tier rifles.

Some people are predisposed to one over the other and will defend to the death their stance.

OP, the fact that you are considering a APC suggests to me which camp you belong in, and makes it unlikely that you'll be "happy" with the MCR. Whether you'll be "happy" with the APC is another thing, Plenty of folks weren't amazed by them as the poster i quoted suggested. But that was in the world where there were plentiful NR and AR options. Now your choices are far more limited - but still broader than just those two rifles. I'd buy the Modern Sporter from ATRS and call it good personally.
 
Thank you all for you input.

BioPace said:
Now your choices are far more limited - but still broader than just those two rifles. I'd buy the Modern Sporter from ATRS and call it good personally.
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I was reading that the Modern Sporter has been deemed prohibited in this post: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2020159-ATRS-Update-May-20th-2020-Re-MS-MH-MV. Is there one on their lineup that is still available?

I am open to any suggestions that you may have, these are just the two I have been considering heavily.
 
I have an MCR but not the other. The stock is junk. The rollpin in the bolt should be replaced with an AR cotter pin. Also you may cause a stoppage if you hit the mag in.
50$ in upgrades and you will have a decent range rifle.
 
The modern sporter was not included in the OIC but had its FRT changed to prohibited by the RCMP later. Alberta Tactical is still making and selling them as the FRT is not law. Every modern sporter I've handled has been fantastic.
 
The only complaint people typically have with the APC-223 is the buttstock. Being of European design, many find the drop excessive, causing a low sighting-plane suitable only for ultra-low red-dot type optics. Once upon a time, this shortcoming was easily rectified by replacing the OEM Buttstock with a Dan Haga Designs ACR Buttstock Adapter and a Bushmaster ACR Buttstock. The shortage of ACR spare parts extends to buttstocks now that the rifles are out of production, so this upgrade is not so simple as it once was. Personally, I wouldn't buy an APC-223 nowadays unless I aready had the buttstock replacement in-hand.

Everyone I know who has an APC-223 with an ACR stock absolutely loves the rifle/carbine. They are built like the proverbial Swiss watch and are ultra accurate, reliable and soft-shooting with their rear Hydraulic Buffer system. Once you sort out the buttstock they are definitely worth every penny. I love my carbine....


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Bartok5 said:
The only complaint people typically have with the APC-223 is the buttstock. Being of European design, many find the drop excessive, causing a low sighting-plane suitable only for ultra-low red-dot type optics.
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Not necessarily true - there are options besides low red dots. The low buttstock isn't a problem if you choose the right optic for the rifle. If you want an ACOG, an ELCAN or an Eotech, yeah it'll be way too low. But a 1-6, 1-8 or 1-10 LPVO in low rings would work perfectly. Put 45 degree flip up iron sights on it instead of vertical flip up irons, and the clearance for the rear peep sight isn't a problem.

I'd also argue that there are a lot of top tier LPVOs outclass even ELCANs (Minox ZP-8, March D8SV24FIML, Vortex Razor HD Gen III come to mind), as well as budget options (Primary Arms ACSS Raptor).
 
I will add another soon to be released option. Irunguns is partnering with PWS and NoDak Spud to The NDS-18SC. PWS has modified there BRN-180 upper, now in its second generation, to fit a custom NoDak 180 lower (as the BRN-180 as it was fit an AR-15, making it prohibited by the OIC). It will sell for around $2000 Canadian, and may represent a good middle option for those who want to pay for a a higher quality fit and finish then the WS-MCR or WK180-C, while not hitting the pricepoint of an ACP223.
 
Ustauk said:
I will add another soon to be released option. Irunguns is partnering with PWS and NoDak Spud to The NDS-18SC. PWS has modified there BRN-180 upper, now in its second generation, to fit a custom NoDak 180 lower (as the BRN-180 as it was fit an AR-15, making it prohibited by the OIC). It will sell for around $2000 Canadian, and may represent a good middle option for those who want to pay for a a higher quality fit and finish then the WS-MCR or WK180-C, while not hitting the pricepoint of an ACP223.
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I second this option, going to sell like hotcakes.
 
I heard plenty of bad on the Canadian 180 clones and plenty of good on the ACP. the negative of tge ACP I heard are very front heavy and over expensive. There is also the tavor option.

To have the money I would probably get a ACP as I don't really have any NR semi to play with.
 
saw a review of the apc223 on youtube and the guy said its a softer shooter than his hk416.

the apc223 is leagues above the wk/mcr, its not even fair to compare them. my only issue is the stock, but you can easily install an acr stock if it bothers you.
 
Did the OP want a black rifle for its looks and modularity, or for being semi-automatic? If you just want something with AR looks, ergonomics, and modularity, and don't mind working your own knob ;-) , you could do a Gucci manual action build using a Spectre Light Practical Carbine or Maple Ridge Armoury manual action
, modular, ARish chassis.
 
I own an APC. Fantastic rifle, softest recoiling 5.56 gun I have ever shot. Printed it a few weeks ago on paper and was getting .50-.77 inch groups with 77GR match ammo at 100yards. At 300 yards it was no issue going 9/10 on a 12x12 steel gong. Running a Burris RT-6 on it. Trigger is nice for a factory trigger, not mushy with a clean break and very audible reset. The action is like butter, super smooth and the recoil buffer mitigates a majority of felt recoil. The fit and finish of the rifle is immaculate.

The factory stock sucks, so I replaced mine using the B&T AR buffer tube adapter. This in combination with a buffer tube and castle nut lets you use whatever AR stock you want. Right now I have a Luth-AR MBA3 from another rifle on mine. I would suggest something with a adjustable cheek comb. The rifle is a touch on the heavy side, pretty sure with everything I have on it its pushing 10.5-11 lbs loaded with 20 rounds in a 10/10 Crossmag.

Is it worth the $4k price tag, its hard to say. Its a really nice rifle but it's just not a custom AR. With 4k you could have built yourself a beauty competition AR that would likely have preformed just as well this.

Is it worth the price premium over a WS-MCR? I would think so, I have shot and handled the MCR only a few times but was just not impressed with it. For $1400 I think it could have been better. The fit and finish is so-so, the accuracy is nothing to write home about, and the reviews about the rifle deteriorating as more rounds go through it worries me. The APC feels like a rifle that as long as its cleaned and lubed will run forever, the MCR feels like a gun that after a year or two of shooting you'll be breaking down and replacing parts.


In summary I enjoy mine, but have thought about selling it and buying a PGW m15 which I think I personally will get more use out of. Its nice to have an NR "practical carbine" that takes AR mags and goes pew pew pew, but its just no AR.


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Have had both.
Had APC223 and now have WS-MCR.
APC is the the softest shooting rifle in 223 I’ve ever shot and I’ve shot almost everything in 15 years of shooting almost exclusively black rifles.
Recoil impulse is almost next to nil and it’s build quality is far above par.
The MCR is a great rifle and I’m happy with it but absolutely not in the league of the APC.
The big downside of the APC was the low rise stock which sucked no matter what optic I had on it or what rise used - MRO, aimpoint, LPVO, etc...
With an ACR stock....fixed.
When the restricted shortys come out again ,I’m getting one. Government be damned.
 
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