Varget alternatives for 223?

[DA07]

I'm using a 1:7 twist, 28" barrel, and getting good 5-shot groups with a slower powder as well as Varget (both consistently under 0.5 moa), and D4064 looks promising. Only shot 5 groups of 3-shots each, so no assertion can be made, but 3 of those 5 groups were just under 0.3 moa at 100m. Those little clusters make me smile. Curious how much larger they'll get with 5 shots, and what can I do to keep them tight? It's all part of the fun.

That’s great! This is fun stuff.

Add some challenge. For final confirmation on loads I started 10 shot groups on the same target. Shoot slow or 2-3 shots at a time, but aim 10 shots at the same place and see where they go. I thought the larger sample size gave me truer picture of what my rifle was actually capable of (probably why I’m somewhat disappointed with it ).

 

[Mike112288]

I have an insite arms impact precision 223 wylde build with 1-7.5” twist hawkhill barrel and cannot seem to get these 55 grain Hornady soft point reloads to group decent. Bought a ton of them for cheap. I’ve tried cfe 223 h4895 and benchmark and all my reloads grouped like 1” or slightly bigger. I tried seating just off the rifling lands and still no good. A box of frontier 5.56 75bthp grouped way better than that. I would think I could get decent groups out tho with light bullets so not sure what else to try. I’m new to reloading tho

 

[DA07]

I have an insite arms impact precision 223 wylde build with 1-7.5” twist hawkhill barrel and cannot seem to get these 55 grain Hornady soft point reloads to group decent. Bought a ton of them for cheap. I’ve tried cfe 223 h4895 and benchmark and all my reloads grouped like 1” or slightly bigger. I tried seating just off the rifling lands and still no good. A box of frontier 5.56 75bthp grouped way better than that. I would think I could get decent groups out tho with light bullets so not sure what else to try. I’m new to reloading tho

Not saying I’m the most experienced but I feel like I’ve been walking that road for a while. Fast twist man. Seems like if you want accuracy with lighter bullets you’re more likely to be accurate with a slower twist. I still see some guys reporting great accuracy with faster twists though. Guess you gotta try to find out.

 

[Mike112288]

Yeah exactly. I’ve seen a number of comments on how people got great accuracy in fast twist barrels with light bullets in 223 and for whatever reason mines not working for me. I did initially choose the fast twist barrel for the 75 eldm bullets but these were so cheap I decided to try.

 

[laker415]

Yeah exactly. I’ve seen a number of comments on how people got great accuracy in fast twist barrels with light bullets in 223 and for whatever reason mines not working for me. I did initially choose the fast twist barrel for the 75 eldm bullets but these were so cheap I decided to try.

You spent good money on a sweet rig and you're shooting garbage soft points through it. Order up some heavies while you can and utilize that barrel twist.

 

[DA07]

Yeah exactly. I’ve seen a number of comments on how people got great accuracy in fast twist barrels with light bullets in 223 and for whatever reason mines not working for me. I did initially choose the fast twist barrel for the 75 eldm bullets but these were so cheap I decided to try.

Can be the bullets too. If you’re serious about a lighter bullet the 53gr VMAX is longer than other bullets in that range. Had a BC of .290. I had best luck with those until I couldn’t find them. Now gave the 40gr VMAX a try and it’s decent. In the past tried Barnes Varmint Grenades, 50gr, as they were nice and long but no luck. Terrible accuracy.

Having fun trying though! Good luck with your loading.

 

[Mike112288]

Yes exactly. It’s kinda silly I know. Looks like the heavies are sold out everywhere tho

 

[Mike112288]

Everything is sold out pretty much everywhere from what I’ve seen. So not sure what else to use. I bought 1000 of these soft points for super cheap awhile back

 

[jimbo14]

That’s great! This is fun stuff.

Add some challenge. For final confirmation on loads I started 10 shot groups on the same target. Shoot slow or 2-3 shots at a time, but aim 10 shots at the same place and see where they go. I thought the larger sample size gave me truer picture of what my rifle was actually capable of (probably why I’m somewhat disappointed with it �&#56611.

lol! Thanks for the idea! I'm new to this - very new. Only reloaded about 250 rifle rounds, so I'm enjoying the process a lot. Quite a bit different from pistol, where I'm happy to bash out 550 in an hour. lol!

 

[todbartell]

Try IMR 4166

 

[silverfoxdj]

I used to use Varget for .223 service rifle competition loads with Hornady 68's and Sierra 69's but I didn't like the compressed loads and the need to trickle-weigh each load.
I switched to Winchester 748 ball powder which produced very accurate loads straight out of the powder meter. Note: Conventional wisdom is that ball powder should be ignited with Winchester primers but in both .223 & .222 I have found that the standard CCI small rifle primers produce much better groups with both W-748 & H-335.

Good to know thanks..

 

[chrismc]

Just one other thought - you've gone over your rifle to make sure it is 100%? Rings/bases/action screws etc? No barrel rub?
I have had a few guns (one being a 223) that were extremely pick with what they were fed - similar to what you describe but with different bullets
After advice above, if nothing works, I would try 60 or 69 gr bullets with the powders you have and see if it makes bugholes.
One thing I have learned, and a costly one when added up because I tried to save a few $$$, is to buy good products if you want precision. ie, brass and bullets. I gave up on certain brands due to inconsistencies, and never looked back. I simply watched the articles on what the top shooters use, and went with those products - been happy ever since!

 

[DA07]

Just one other thought - you've gone over your rifle to make sure it is 100%? Rings/bases/action screws etc? No barrel rub?
I have had a few guns (one being a 223) that were extremely pick with what they were fed - similar to what you describe but with different bullets
After advice above, if nothing works, I would try 60 or 69 gr bullets with the powders you have and see if it makes bugholes.
One thing I have learned, and a costly one when added up because I tried to save a few $$$, is to buy good products if you want precision. ie, brass and bullets. I gave up on certain brands due to inconsistencies, and never looked back. I simply watched the articles on what the top shooters use, and went with those products - been happy ever since!

Great advice. I’m pretty confident with the rifle, other than it being a factory Remington (which I will never buy a factory gun again). Trigger is upgraded and action only is bedded in Devcon in a LTR stock. Barrel is completely free floating. There is always room to move up on the scope but it has routinely made tight 5 shot groups. An honest best average 10 shot groups is 3/4 MOA for this rifle. That’s with 69gr SMK over Varget. I have not tried Berger or Hornady in that weight range. 55 Blitzkings, 60 VMax were terrible. 75 AMax was out of range, too long. Have never fired a Nosler product.

Good advice on components. What’s a gold standard for this? ie. if it can’t shoot well with XX brass, and XX bullets, the gun is a lemon.

I’m sure many can relate to this neurological deficiency of wanting solid 1/2” groups. My wife is perplexed, hence why I’m here working out my issues

 

[Oldly]

I'm surprised bencmark doesn't work for you in 40 and 53's.out of all the 223 i have loaded for, varget for 60 to 75 and benchmark 60 and lower.now that benchmark is really hard to find im trying n133 and will know this week how it does.but I remembered your barrel liking slower powder,so the n140 might be your ticket.i think it was n540 that people in Europe compare to varget.

 

[Geppetto]

I know a few others have already mentioned it, but on Hodgdon's burn rate chart they show BL-C(2) as the closest to Varget (just a bit slower), although I'm not sure if it's as hard to find as Varget these days.

Reference is here:
h ttps://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/burn-rate-color.pdf

 

[NikM]

CFE very temp unstable so keep that in mind. A good load on a 30 degree day might not be on a -30 degree day if you’re on the edge of your node.
Have you tried playing with your seating depth? Seating depth can open and close your groups.
I’ve had good success doing a ladder test. At your node vary your seating depth by 0.015”. You’ll get another velocity node. That will be your load.

 

[ruger22]

N 140 is great in my Anschutz.
1 - 9 twist and 73 gr berger.

Was it Tesro that had N 140 is stock this week?

 

[Ohno]

Ram shot tac has been great for me.

x2
I use a Savage 1-9, 223 w/ 69gr HP

 

[Airgunnr]

I've ran into the same problem as yourself for my 223. I just used up the last of my varget and have purchased 8 different powders to try. It's a shame since varget shot 1/2" groups with 53g SMK as well as 69g SMK. So far, Dominion Arms D4074SSC has done extremely well with the 69g SMK, actually tighter groups than with varget. I've tried it in both my 223's, Savage Axis and Model 12. I have yet to try it with the lighter projectiles but am interested to see how it does. VV133 did well shooting 50g VMax but showed pressure signs before hitting max charges on 55g and over. The one good thing is D4064 is cheaper than varget, Canadian and it's more available.

 

[DA07]

I've ran into the same problem as yourself for my 223. I just used up the last of my varget and have purchased 8 different powders to try. It's a shame since varget shot 1/2" groups with 53g SMK as well as 69g SMK. So far, Dominion Arms D4074SSC has done extremely well with the 69g SMK, actually tighter groups than with varget. I've tried it in both my 223's, Savage Axis and Model 12. I have yet to try it with the lighter projectiles but am interested to see how it does. VV133 did well shooting 50g VMax but showed pressure signs before hitting max charges on 55g and over. The one good thing is D4064 is cheaper than varget, Canadian and it's more available.

Good tips. Thanks.

If I can get my hands on 1 LB of the D4064 I’d definitely give it a try. Looks like all that is available is the 5 LB.