Varnish on Kar98k stock - Removable ?

[Nabs]

Hello all,

I need some guidance in this area so I have turned to the CGN community for help.

One of my RC Kar98ks has had varnish applied on her stock a few years back just before I bought her. It looks like the varnish was applied right on top of the shellac that was on the stock. There are portions of the stock where the shellac has flaked off almost completely and where the varnish was not applied so you can see the laminate stock's true colour. Is there a way to remove this sticky, poorly applied varnish layer from the stock without harming the finish or sanding the wood ?

Another thing, the stock still bears WaA ink acceptance marks on the right side and pistol grip area. The varnish has been applied over these parts. If the varnish removal is possible, can these ink stamps be saved ?

I have attached a few pictures showing the stock as it is right now:

With the help of the light, you can see how far the varnish was applied up the stock. Just behind the rear band is where the varnish ends. Forward of the rear band, the varnish was not applied and some of the shellac is still present. You can also see the simple drop and spread effect of the varnish and how it was not liberally applied on the stock.

Another shot of the area just behind the rear band. You can see the varnish in this image as a shiny reflective surface. To the touch, it is quite sticky.

The top of the pistol grip, untouched by the varnish application. You can see the laminate stock's original colour here.

The ink stamps are present on the right side of the butt stock. You can see the heavy application of varnish here. Just forward of the butt plate is an area where no varnish was applied so you can again see the true colour of the wood.

Any and all thoughts are appreciated on how to deal with this hideous varnish application on this Kar98k's stock.

Thank you CGN.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Denatured Alcohol or Rubbing Alcohol on a soft cloth, a little bit at a time. Try it a small area.

Never use Easy Off Oven Cleaner as your stock turns a Green color.

 

[Nabs]

Hey Coyote,

I heard about the rubbing alcohol method before but I was afraid to try it incase it lifted the finish from the wood.

The local pharmacy sells the 70% and 99%, which would be the best ?

Any idea what type of results I should expect ? Would I notice an immediate result or one over time ?

 

[collector67]

I have used Acetone on Russian varnished stocks with good results-it literally melts it away and leaves the bare wood. One thing to remember is that it will "raise" the grain somewhat, so a fair amount of buffing with fine steel wool will be necessary to smooth the wood down again. If I had a RC K98, that would be one of the first things I would do to it to bring it back to it's original state. (yours is an excellent candidate for a resto project!)

 

[Nabs]

Interesting idea but buffing the wood grain would most certainly remove the WaA stamps, something I really wish to avoid. Would the rubbing alcohol route raise the wood ?

 

[svt1940]

You can use paint stripper like circa1850, let the stripper work and use fine steel wool. You wont harm the various marking on your stock and wont affect the basic color of the wood.

 

[Coyote Ugly]

Hey Coyote,

I heard about the rubbing alcohol method before but I was afraid to try it incase it lifted the finish from the wood.

The local pharmacy sells the 70% and 99%, which would be the best ?

Any idea what type of results I should expect ? Would I notice an immediate result or one over time ?

Use whatever rubbing alcohol you have.
Work in the alcohol with a small paint brush or a hobby brush for plastic models. Rub off varnish with a cloth. On a nice stock, some people take their time over several days to get the best result.
Don't rush it.
It's not like dunking it in a 50 gallon barrel and done in 32 seconds.

 

[Nabs]

That sounds like a good alternative. Is this paint stripper located at Canadian tire or Home depot ?

When you mention "let it work" would I simply follow the directions on the can or best personal judgement or is there a recommended way of going about this ?

I just want to make sure I do this right the first time.

 

[Nabs]

Use whatever rubbing alcohol you have.
Work in the alcohol with a small paint brush or a hobby brush for plastic models. Rub off varnish with a cloth. On a nice stock, some people take their time over several days to get the best result.
Don't rush it.
It's not like dunking it in a 50 gallon barrel and done in 32 seconds.

I will have to be patient with this one as it is a nice stock.

I'll give this method a try first.

 

[purple]

You can use paint stripper like circa1850, let the stripper work and use fine steel wool. You wont harm the various marking on your stock and wont affect the basic color of the wood.

I've settled on the Minwax Antique Stripper as an excellent product for removing old finish. I prefer a synthetic nylon pot cleaner type pad (not the green one though as it sheds the color) to steel wool on a stock. Steel wool snags and leaves little bits here and there.

 

[Nabs]

Well, with your help and suggestions guys, I think I was able to get rid of almost all the varnish, save the markings, and get back the original finish I remember seeing on this rifle before I bought her from my friend.

When I pick up some gun oil, I'll be sure to rub some into the stock and hand guard.

What do you guys think ?

Here are some before images and shots of the worst areas with varnish poorly applied. It was also very sticky to the touch. You can see the WaA markings are extremely faint under the coat of varnish on the right side of the stock.

Some progress made with rubbing alcohol applied with a small art brush:

I then tried some light 0000 steel wool to remove the heavy amounts of varnish. It worked extremely well that I used this method for the opposite side with WaA as well but being very careful.

After rubbing off the excess varnish bits that came off with the steel wool, I rinsed the stock under hot water and gently rubbed the water off with a towel. The result was what you see now. I am very pleased with the results!

The once hidden WaA markings are now visible:

The ugly varnish layer on the opposite side is pretty much gone:

Same with the fore end on the right side:

Even on the pistol grip area:

Some new markings even appeared after removing the varnish:

It went well enough that I tried the same method on the hand guard; steel wool, a wipe with a shop towel, a rinse under hot water, and a final wipe with another towel:

Thank you for the help everyone, I really appreciate it as this Kar98k's stock has been bugging me for over two years now and she finally has the respect she deserves.

 

[svt1940]

Clean looking wood now Tung oil would make a good preservative while keeping the look of the wood.

 

[Nabs]

Good idea, any good stores to pick up some tung oil ?

 

[svt1940]

Good idea, any good stores to pick up some tung oil ?

canadian tire and any good hardware store should have, Minwax tung oil or minwax oil antique finish work great. They protect well and give a typical non-glossy military finish and are faster then linseen oil. I did my rc k98 many years ago, finish was very poor and now look just great

 

[Nabs]

I did a quick search on Canadiantire's website for "Minwax" and it came up with just over half a dozen items. I do not wish to pick up the wrong one so I am wondering which one would be correct ?

 

[Claven2]

There is still varnish left on that stock. I don;t think you are done yet.

I would avoid Tung oil - it is fine for US WW2 guns, but the Germans used flax seed oil which is basically just raw linseed oil, which is what I would use.

 

[Nabs]

True, I knew I wasn't going to be able to remove it all. You can see still a tiny bit of a shine where the varnish was and where it wasn't applied when you hold the stock up to the light and look down at an angle. There is also bits of varnish left in the dings and scrapes on the butt stock that I am probably just going to leave those alone.

Believe it or not there are very small bits of shellac still present on the stock albeit very small bits.

The wood, in places where the varnish was quite heavy, has been lightly buffed with the steel wool but not hard enough to remove any imperfections or dents/dings from the past. The rifle itself is somewhat beat up so the stock works with the rifle.

I'm still keeping my options, any thoughts for removing the last bit of varnish ?

 

[svt1940]

True, I knew I wasn't going to be able to remove it all. You can see still a tiny bit of a shine where the varnish was and where it wasn't applied when you hold the stock up to the light and look down at an angle. There is also bits of varnish left in the dings and scrapes on the butt stock that I am probably just going to leave those alone.

Believe it or not there are very small bits of shellac still present on the stock albeit very small bits.

The wood, in places where the varnish was quite heavy, has been lightly buffed with the steel wool but not hard enough to remove any imperfections or dents/dings from the past. The rifle itself is somewhat beat up so the stock works with the rifle.

I'm still keeping my options, any thoughts for removing the last bit of varnish ?

Use paint stripper with steel wool. In tight spots, a small nylon brush or a tooth brush work very well and wont mark the wood. let the stripper enough time to work the old varnish.

 

[agentcq]

I've always used the Circa or Mini-Wax antique remover. Usually you don't even need the steel wool even a sponge will often work. As the remover is a liquid it will raise any marking a bit but after drying the markings will return to their original condition.

Then afterwards you can use tung, linseed oil, Danish Oil, etc or a your favourite combination to bring the stock back to life.

The trick is to have a matte finish and not a glossy finish.

It looks like you have a nice stock. I don't know why, buy the WaA23 code comes up on about 75% of RC's I have seen, despite reciever markings.