Velocities all over the place

ivo, if you go to the powders mentioned, you will be in decent territory. Another old standby, that is very well behaved is H4831. I am actually a bit surprised that you actually had pressure problems, with the slower RL25.
Stay away from maximum loads, they really do nothing for you in the end, other than cause extreme wear and tear on your firearms. Jerry is giving you some good advice in his last post. Especially in the metalurgical department.
Velocity may be ###y but so are some of the hookers on the street, they are both extremely dangerous to your health and well being. It just isn't worth it.

I couldn't agree more and like I said I'm not all about velocity(I spend a lot of money to get accurate rifles, I could get speed from any stock rifle), I've found in the other rifles I've reloaded for that my best groups were usually well below max and always in a safe area. I have some H4831sc that I will try if the RL 17 doesn't yield any promising results.

Ivo
 
Jerry, shouldn't I be looking at a faster burning powder instead of a slower one to get complete burn and avoid pressure spikes?

Ivo

NO, the last thing you want to do is use a faster powder. This simply accelerates you reaching less then desireable pressures AND you will have less then ideal case capacity.

My best loads have always been with a charge of powder that fills a case as much as possible AND ignites cleanly at or UNDER 68,000psi WITH a primer that is just hot enough to get the job done.

I have definitely run loads much hotter. Although not a good idea, I have run them till I don't need to decap the cases anymore (bad idea by the way).

Accuracy has NEVER happened at these elevated pressures. At least without a whole headache of inconsistencies and day to day fluctuations. There is nothing on our shelves that will burn safe and accurate beyond magnum pressures.

I have even tried Re17 and Yes, got some real tasty speed BUT accuracy was the pits until I throttled back to what I was getting before. At which point and in my cases, load density was not what I wanted.

A simple matter of an ever so slightly smaller bore and an ever so slightly larger bullet and you have pressure WAAAAY outside what the book predicts.

Custom AND Factory actions can mask Proof pressures loads no problem at all. I have proof pressure test cases which have ZERO outward appearance that they were anything but factory loads. If they weren't marked as proof loads, you wouldn't have known.

These cases were fired in a factory to test their rifles before shipment. I bet that case was ejected with slight bolt lift effort. When you see pressure signs in a full meal deal custom, you are WAY into religious pressure territory.

My suggestion is to try Retumbo or even H50BMG/US869 - yes even slower powder. I expect that your case will hold close to 70grs of an extruded powder so you need to consider something slower.

Work up WITH your chronie with a start load that is around 2700fps. Then work up in 1/2 gr increments until you approach 3000fps. For the first few grains, velocity WILL increase in a steady and predictable manner. Accuracy will also improve.

Then the velocity will plateau, and for 1 to 1.5gr, the velocity will stay the same but the groups will continue to shrink. Become consistent in size but the orientation of the group will flatten THEN rotate to be vertical.

Then the next 1/2 to 1 gr increment will show a substantial spike in speed from 50 to 100fps and groups will open up dramatically and continue to do so as speeds rocket up.

When you are at the upper end of your load range and your speeds DECREASE, you could quickly be approaching dangerous pressure levels. Why some powders do this, I have no clue but seen it enough to know that is not good.

Usually, you will have all manner of pressures signs in a common action and it will be pretty obvious that you need to stop or buy more life insurance. You will see zip in your PGW and the cases will extract likely with 1 finger bolt lift.

I doubt that you will see 3000fps and still be bug hole accurate. My SWAG would put you around 2850 to 2950fps as your top sweet spot

You have a 24" barrel. Most competition rigs will have up to 30" pipes so we will see up to 150fps more speed per given load.

Good luck with your testing.

Jerry

PS Hodgdon lists 175gr Speer mag tip with 64gr of Retumbo at 2800fps and 61,200psi. Win Supreme 780 powder is 68gr at 60,500psi for 2850fps. They don't list a barrel length but it isn't over 26".
 
I would like to see you work on load development at longer range.
200 yards just isn't far enough to get a good grasp on what is happening.

According to a friend that shoots the 7WSM he believes Reloader 25 will work and should be accurate, just not at 3200fps. His gun is a single shooter (long throat) and the load is very close to yours, but his velocity is a squeak under 3000fps.

I suspect your rifle is set up with a short throat to work along with your magazine? This may infringe significantly on powder capacity.....It is possible that a slightly faster powder might be right for your particular setup.
Are you already significantly compressed with your RL-25 load?

I might be reading too much into this, but the bottom line is you need to start sending bullets at long range to find out.

Any thoughts Jerry?
 
I looked at Alliant's loads for the 7 WSM, and 67.0 grs looks to be on the high side for pressure, but not dangerously so.

I have no experience with the 7 WSM, but have worked up quite a few loads with very slow powders. I have found that until you get the powder into its optimal pressure range, you will get extreme variations in MV, then it will settle down - I have not worked to the other side of safe (because I always ran out of powder space).
 
X-fan, it has everything to do with conditions under which you test. I do most of my prelim testing at 200yds because that is how my range is set and it tends to be calm or at least, I can get to it when days are calm.

I find very strong results that just need a final group or two at 300m to find the winner. Where I shoot 300m, the air is so bumby that initial testing here would be very frustrating (unless 5am test days work for you).

So you have to balance distance to show better results to conditions that can mask or hinder your results.

Shoot under the best conditions you can, as far as you can with the highest mag you can. Anything to reduce/eliminate shooter error.

I really feel strongly about being able to see your hits as you shoot. gives you a chance to catch a condition shift that pushed a bullet out of the group. Stops the whole guesswork of 'was it me, or the wind, or just a crappy load'.

Since being able to spot my impacts, the number of groups I shoot has dropped dramatically.

Jerry
 
I agree,
Most of my testing is done at a quiet (wind) 350 yards.

I was curious what you thought about IVO potentially having a short chamber and what that means in terms of case capacity?

IVO,
What is you maximum overall length (to the tip of the seated bullet)?
 
My OAL is 2.675" and is obviously so because of the mag limitation.
The load is not compressed at all even having to seat the bullets deep.
 
wow, that is a super short OAL even for a short action mag.

I would have no way to guess where the throat is. Just soft seat a bullet on an empty case and chamber. See how far back the bullet is moved.

It is possible that the chamber throat has been set shorter then factory. This gives a better potential for accuracy - ogive close to the lands but it can also raise pressures.

But given his velocities, that was a red flag to me. I think in the 2900fps will be more like it and plenty warm enough.

Jerry
 
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