VERY strange BSA problem.

W

Why not?

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Bought an old BSA Enfield sporter rifle in 270 Winchester a few weeks ago that has really got me stumped. It is not a home-grown effort, but a factory conversion by BSA. Have had a couple of these over the years, and they usually shoot quite well.

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I knew it would be a heavy rifle, and my original plan was to rebarrel it to 9.3X62, but decided to shoot it first. The rifle literally shoots groups like a shotgun. Have taken it apart twice, checked bedding and everything seems tight. Scope rings and bases are tight.

Thought the scope must be gunny sack. Today, I went back to the range with a known-scope mounted to give it one more try. Here's the results at 25 yards!

View attachment 267376

In close to sixty years of shooting and handloading, I have not one time seen any rifle shoot this poorly. Twenty-five yards, and the two distinct 'groups' are about five inches apart.

The bore is not perfect, but appears close to that, and has sharp rifling. As well, a tight patch discovers no loose spots in the bore anywhere. The crown looks good, but would not cause such horrible results even if it were damaged.

So now I have a new project. Figure out what is going on, and learn something.

Before I start tearing this thing apart, am wondering where you would start?

Ted
 
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I am wondering if there is forend pressure making a weird barrel whip signature or some such? Odd that the groups are so off. Give what I have read of your writing i dont think it is anything to do with the load used.
 
First place I'd look is the crown and bedding. If that shows no issues check ROT and cast chamber. A quick measure of the lands / grooves at the muzzle to confirm a .277 bore. When you loosen the front action screw grip barrel and forestock in your hand and feel for movement. If there's any movement your bedding needs to be redone. Mag well bottoming out on the action? Action screws touching stock?barrel Free floated?
 
Two 'quick' questions Ted.
#1 Any idea as to what the twist rate is of the rifling is?
#2 Any chance you could slug the barrel?

The reason I ask about slugging the barrel to confirm the actual diameter is because years ago, a friend had a similar problem with a .270 he was building. Seems that somehow, his buddy 'helping' him had somehow mixed up things and ended up actually using a 7mm barrel if I remember correctly.
 
I had one in 30 06, my Dad bought it new in 1952 one of my Son's has it now, when I got it was not great for accuracy not quite sure how bad as I was using the open sights, the barrel channel was unfinished and a little rough, I free floated it and oiled the stock and it was immediately better, I mounted a scope on it and I got my first two moose with it and my Son got His first Mule deer.
 
Bedding would be the only thing I can think of throwing it off that much.
Is the stock bedded to the barrel or is it free floated?
 
obsessed1b said:
First place I'd look is the crown and bedding. If that shows no issues check ROT and cast chamber. A quick measure of the lands / grooves at the muzzle to confirm a .277 bore. When you loosen the front action screw grip barrel and forestock in your hand and feel for movement. If there's any movement your bedding needs to be redone. Mag well bottoming out on the action? Action screws touching stock?barrel Free floated?
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Most of that was checked after the first trip to the range. Didn't do a chamber cast because I have half a dozen fired cases to measure.

Thanks,
Ted
 
SHELL SHUCKER said:
I'd check & maybe re-cut the muzzle crown . How good is the rifling & bore on 'er?
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Both look fine. Thanks for your help, my friend.

Milt Dale said:
I had one in 30 06, my Dad bought it new in 1952 one of my Son's has it now, when I got it was not great for accuracy not quite sure how bad as I was using the open sights, the barrel channel was unfinished and a little rough, I free floated it and oiled the stock and it was immediately better, I mounted a scope on it and I got my first two moose with it and my Son got His first Mule deer.
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It is not free-floated. That will be one thing to try, for sure. Thanks Milt.

Hitzy said:
Bedding would be the only thing I can think of throwing it off that much.
Is the stock bedded to the barrel or is it free floated?
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Agree, it almost has to be bedding. The scope mounts are solid. Even if they weren't, I have never seen loose bases cause five inches of spread at 25 yards. Thanks Hitzy.

Going to take it out of the stock, and check everything again.

This is going to be interesting. Thanks to all of you!

Ted
 
I ran into something like this quite a while back.
The sling stud was bumping the bawrill slightly.
Just 'nuff to cause some problems.

Curious to know what you're tossing down wind for bullets?
Something astray there such as bullet diameter?

Heck, maybe yewse wuzz closzin the wrawng eye bawl?...……….:pirate:
 
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Ted,
Ye can always go with plan A if the 270 setup ends up being a pain. I rather like the 9.3 option on a hefty beasty like the P14/P17 action'd units. I can see your one fitted with a magnum contour, 22" tube on 'er. (Like the profile of a Rem 783 tube.)

I had a similar rifle to yours in .458 Win mag in the mid 80's that porked out at 11 lbs with scope. T'was an accurate bugger though & great for shooting from a hide.
Good luck with your project amigo. Neat rifle fer sure.:)

JJ
 
Why not? said:
So now I have a new project. Figure out what is going on, and learn something.
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I understand the "challenge" that has been set before you here, but why not just sent the rifle away and have it re-barreled?

The old saying ..... "Don't shoot the donor" is true in this one as well. :)

That would make a very nice 9.3. I could see that with a 21" bbl, bbl sights, bbl band front swivel, the forend cut shorter and a good pad on the other end topped with a 1.5-5 in weaver mounts.
 
Bought an old Savage 110 in 338 Win and it shot poorly too. Not as Bad as what you are showing but BAD. It had been bedded and upon inspection the bedding looked really good but when I looked closely at the barrel channel,there were three very shiny spots from contact between the barrel and the stock. A little stock work later and the next time I shot it it was much better, about 1 1/2 inches VS about 8 inches at 100 yards. Just saying.
 
9.3mauser said:
Slug the bore, make sure the barrel is .277" and not .284". I once had a rifle that was proved and stamped as a 7mm, even though it was clearly an 8mm.
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This... The last time I saw terrible groups, the fella was shooting .243 out of a .260... maybe someone rebored?

Also, try the fired brass in another .270, and try FL sizing the fired brass and see how much pressure it takes to size it down... maybe the chamber/throat is buggered.
 
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Home loads or store bought ?
What does the spent brass look like ? Any psi signs , gas leakage ?
I had similar results once when shooting off a lead sled the rest for the fore stock was very tight and giving terrible groups from the pressure. Stood up with it - problem solved .
 
Having owned several of those BSA remakes, including a nice Model D as posted, I can say that the barrels are not free-floated. In fact, they are inletted to be tight the whole length of the barrel. This makes them vulnerable to a warped stock, or other bedding faults. Usually, these types of faults are easy to diagnose - do the action screws snug up quickly, or do they gradually load up?
 
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