That’s right its good for semi autos but now that I think about it prob not as good for bolt action. The eps chamber would be a happier medium. I’d like to be able get superb groups with match ammo and be able to use cci ammo as well in the same gun. That’s ideally what I’d like.
Vudoo Rifle
- Thread starter stubblejumper
- Start date
I still have almost a full case of Standard Plus that I purchased for $490 per case, and I just bought five bricks from a friend that wasn't using it for $250, so I am good for a year or two. Buying multiple cases at a time, has saved me a fair bit.
Not yet. I hope to this week, if our range is open, and it is fairly calm. As good as the Standard Plus did in such poor conditions, they may not be much improvement.
CZ_Silhouetter
Regular
- Location
- Saskatchewan
Be interested to see how your Vudoo likes the Center-X mine also prefers SK Std even over SK Rifle Match.
Interesting. I wonder if that’s some sort of trend with the chamber+barrel combos used by vudoo. I feel like I saw a video where someone from vudoo was explaining that they try to build their barrels around centre x, although since trying to confirm that I haven’t been able to see the video clip that I remember seeing. Maybe I’m just losing my mind.
Shooters of all quality rifles would do well to keep in mind that it's not the variety of ammo with a particular name on the box -- e.g. SK Standard Plus -- that will shoot consistently well with a particular rifle. Much more relevant and important is the lot number of the flavour of ammo in hand. In other words, a rifle won't prefer SK Standard Plus over SK Rifle Match. One particular lot of SK Standard Plus may well perform better in a certain rifle than another lot of SK Rifle Match.
Furthermore, SK Standard Plus and SK Rifle Match are made of the same components -- the same brass, propellant, bullets -- and are made on the same machinery. Each production run of SK ammo is sorted by quality, with the top standard velocity (1073 fps average) being SK Rifle Match. Among SK rifle ammos with 1073 fps average MV the next "best" is SK Standard Plus. Sometimes in some circumstances SK Standard Plus will perform better in a particular rifle. But it should not be taken as a generality such as "my rifle prefers SK Standard Plus over SK Rifle Match."
Regarding Vudoo chamber, I don't know if Vudoo has published or released information on a particular reamer used. Lilja, for example, uses different chambers on barrels, depending on the rifle for which they are made. These include Bentz chambers for the Ruger 10/22, Ruger 77/22, Sako FinnFire, Sako Quad rifles, the Lilja 2 for the Ruger Precision Rimfire Barrels, while Lilja's Anschutz 2007/2013 drop in barrels are made with the Eley EPS Match chamber. The Vudoo V22 repeater chamber is referred to by Mike Bush as the "22LR RAVAGE" chamber. Bush says the chamber in the forthcoming Vudoo single shot benchrest rifle will be "different." See h t t p s://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11858399&postcount=342 While not conclusive, this does suggest a tighter chamber for the new BR Vudoo.
What is known about the Vudoo repeater chamber is what Bush himself has chosen to reveal, but there is nothing to indicate that it is designed around a particular variety of ammo, Center X or other: "The chamber is a match dimension chamber of my own design and exclusive to Vudoo. As many of you likely know, the Win 52D chamber is the shortest and tightest of all match chambers. Without the lead, the chamber measures .580 in length, the Vudoo chamber is .605 in length. There are many match chambers that are longer and looser than the Vudoo, but as a match chamber, the Vudoo has no issues extracting and ejecting loaded rounds."
h t t p s://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11576429&postcount=37
Generally speaking, match-type chambers on many rifles often have dimensions that are a little more generous than single shot models and even more generous than on many custom single shot barrels, for which the shooter/gunsmith can choose the exact chamber. The reason for this is that the manufactures have to make chambers that will accommodate a wide variety of ammos, made by different ammo makers. Anschutz, for example, doesn't use the tightest of chambers because the manufacturer understands that users will be shooting many different varieties of ammo. Even if some common ammos like CCI SV can be hard to chamber in a "match-type" chamber, there are a lot of other standard velocity ammos that must be accommodated by the gunmaker.
Furthermore, SK Standard Plus and SK Rifle Match are made of the same components -- the same brass, propellant, bullets -- and are made on the same machinery. Each production run of SK ammo is sorted by quality, with the top standard velocity (1073 fps average) being SK Rifle Match. Among SK rifle ammos with 1073 fps average MV the next "best" is SK Standard Plus. Sometimes in some circumstances SK Standard Plus will perform better in a particular rifle. But it should not be taken as a generality such as "my rifle prefers SK Standard Plus over SK Rifle Match."
Regarding Vudoo chamber, I don't know if Vudoo has published or released information on a particular reamer used. Lilja, for example, uses different chambers on barrels, depending on the rifle for which they are made. These include Bentz chambers for the Ruger 10/22, Ruger 77/22, Sako FinnFire, Sako Quad rifles, the Lilja 2 for the Ruger Precision Rimfire Barrels, while Lilja's Anschutz 2007/2013 drop in barrels are made with the Eley EPS Match chamber. The Vudoo V22 repeater chamber is referred to by Mike Bush as the "22LR RAVAGE" chamber. Bush says the chamber in the forthcoming Vudoo single shot benchrest rifle will be "different." See h t t p s://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11858399&postcount=342 While not conclusive, this does suggest a tighter chamber for the new BR Vudoo.
What is known about the Vudoo repeater chamber is what Bush himself has chosen to reveal, but there is nothing to indicate that it is designed around a particular variety of ammo, Center X or other: "The chamber is a match dimension chamber of my own design and exclusive to Vudoo. As many of you likely know, the Win 52D chamber is the shortest and tightest of all match chambers. Without the lead, the chamber measures .580 in length, the Vudoo chamber is .605 in length. There are many match chambers that are longer and looser than the Vudoo, but as a match chamber, the Vudoo has no issues extracting and ejecting loaded rounds."
h t t p s://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11576429&postcount=37
Generally speaking, match-type chambers on many rifles often have dimensions that are a little more generous than single shot models and even more generous than on many custom single shot barrels, for which the shooter/gunsmith can choose the exact chamber. The reason for this is that the manufactures have to make chambers that will accommodate a wide variety of ammos, made by different ammo makers. Anschutz, for example, doesn't use the tightest of chambers because the manufacturer understands that users will be shooting many different varieties of ammo. Even if some common ammos like CCI SV can be hard to chamber in a "match-type" chamber, there are a lot of other standard velocity ammos that must be accommodated by the gunmaker.
Fantastic information Grauhanen. Thank you for the thorough reply. It makes sense about the lot to lot variances. The only thing that I am still trying to wrap my mind around would be tracking down and stocking up on a particular lot of ammo for competition and accuracy with your barrel/chamber once you find a good one. I guess it seems like logistically it adds to the complication of trying to squeeze the most accuracy from your rimfire. Perhaps it’s just a reality that I haven’t been willing to accept yet. I’m sure that most of the reputable dealers understand the importance of the differences between lot to lot and would work with a buyer in getting them ammo from the lot they are looking for provides that the dealer has stock.
My advice on ammo would be to try a couple boxes from each lot number you can find and see what happens. 100 rounds on a calm day is more than enough to give you a good baseline on what it's like in your particular rifle.
While it's true that a particular lot of Standard Plus may occasionally outperform a higher priced SK or Lapua ammo, keep in mind that it probably won't be as consistent over the long run. As a result, you might get some great groups per box, but expect some flyers.
A given lot of Center X may not shoot those few really tight groups, but it SHOULD be more consistent overall.
In a perfect world, you'd test several lots of top notch match ammo, and buy several cases of the one that performs the best. That's what the big dogs do. The rest of us are lucky to find a good shooting lot of mid grade ammo and buy as much as we can afford.
I recently came across a lot of ammo that's quite good in one of my rifles. Unfortunately, by the time I tested it, there was only a brick and a bit of it left at the dealer I bought it from. The take away lesson from this is: Don't wait 3 months to test ammo if you might want more of the same lot!
I bought whatever they had left, and will shoot it for competition this year. There's probably more somewhere in Canada, but that gets expensive having it shipped.
The other lot they had of the same type, while not quite shotgun-like in the same rifle, shows that there's a distinct difference in the two.
If you can only find a few boxes of a particular lot number, it's not worth testing if you can't find more.
Stores that cater to target shooters will normally indulge you, within reason, when it comes to lot number selection. They understand there's a difference. Your approach to asking them is a factor in their willingness to check lot numbers.
While it's true that a particular lot of Standard Plus may occasionally outperform a higher priced SK or Lapua ammo, keep in mind that it probably won't be as consistent over the long run. As a result, you might get some great groups per box, but expect some flyers.
A given lot of Center X may not shoot those few really tight groups, but it SHOULD be more consistent overall.
In a perfect world, you'd test several lots of top notch match ammo, and buy several cases of the one that performs the best. That's what the big dogs do. The rest of us are lucky to find a good shooting lot of mid grade ammo and buy as much as we can afford.
I recently came across a lot of ammo that's quite good in one of my rifles. Unfortunately, by the time I tested it, there was only a brick and a bit of it left at the dealer I bought it from. The take away lesson from this is: Don't wait 3 months to test ammo if you might want more of the same lot!
I bought whatever they had left, and will shoot it for competition this year. There's probably more somewhere in Canada, but that gets expensive having it shipped.
The other lot they had of the same type, while not quite shotgun-like in the same rifle, shows that there's a distinct difference in the two.
If you can only find a few boxes of a particular lot number, it's not worth testing if you can't find more.
Stores that cater to target shooters will normally indulge you, within reason, when it comes to lot number selection. They understand there's a difference. Your approach to asking them is a factor in their willingness to check lot numbers.
If I lived within an hour or so of my dealer, that would be practical, but that isn't the case. In my situation it comes down to trying a load, and buying what the dealer has when I travel through in a month or so. I may get lucky and get a case of the same lot number, and I may not.
If only it always remained the same no matter what lot number it was. Very annoying to think that I’m supppsed to try and track down the same lot number and if not I get crappy groups. Wish they were more consistent in their ammo production that one didn’t have to be concerned over a lot number. Oh well..
So would you guys just try and find an offering from a particular brand of ammo that ‘generally’ seems to shoot well out of your barrels rather than chasing lot numbers.
I’m going for accuracy but constantly looking for the best lot numbers seems daunting tbh.
I’m going for accuracy but constantly looking for the best lot numbers seems daunting tbh.
When Rudy Schultz was operating Intetnational Imports, you could send him your rifle and he would test various lot numbers in it for you if you were ordering a few cases of Ammo- I can't remember how many though fir a minimum order .
However this was done indoors on a machine rest to take out as many of the variables as possible .
Lot number differences do matter when it comes to top shelf match ammo for BR or master class ISU shooters .
For 95% of us however it does not matter.
Cat
Shooters need to be aware that lot variation is real and it does matter in getting the best accuracy from your rifle. Anyone who is buying a Vudoo rifle ($2500 for the barreled action alone) and then shooting whatever ammo he has on hand or what is on sale, is doing himself a disservice. If someone is buying a top quality rifle he should get ammo to match.
To be sure, lot testing is expensive and time consuming. The important thing is to realize that not all lots of ammo -- even "good" ammo -- will shoot with similar results in a good quality rifle. The rifle can't turn poorly shooting ammo into good shooting stuff. Some lots will not do well for accuracy, and that just sucks especially with a good quality rifle costing thousands of dollars.
Here's an example of how different lots of the same ammo can shoot with the same rifle at the same distance.
Below are results from a better lot but not a particularly good one.
Below are the results from a different lot. It had similar results in three or four other good rifles.
To be sure, lot testing is expensive and time consuming. The important thing is to realize that not all lots of ammo -- even "good" ammo -- will shoot with similar results in a good quality rifle. The rifle can't turn poorly shooting ammo into good shooting stuff. Some lots will not do well for accuracy, and that just sucks especially with a good quality rifle costing thousands of dollars.
Here's an example of how different lots of the same ammo can shoot with the same rifle at the same distance.
Below are results from a better lot but not a particularly good one.
Below are the results from a different lot. It had similar results in three or four other good rifles.
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This is a point I've made for years, and it still holds true.
It's like putting bias ply snow tires on a Ferrari, just because they're cheap.
