VZ-58 side mount by Kasat - what was its fate?

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Flying Beaver

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I read about this in an old post by "Kasat" in the Black/Green rifle forum. It was a "no-gunsmith" scope mount for a VZ-58. The pictures make it pretty clear, I think. I've seen no reference to this project for many months, and was wondering if anyone knew how it had worked out, or if people were still building them.

It struck me that this mount base would be useful not only for mounting Russian optics, but also for mounting the side-mount Weaver-rail base that Kalinka sell for the AK & SKS.

If I'm wrong, I hope someone will enlighten me. This looks an awful lot like something I've been scheming out (which just goes to show there are rarely new ideas, it's just timing).

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1568773#post1568773

Kasat said:
I decided to share my invention with other VZ owners. I have designed a side scope rail mounting system that doesn't permanantly alter your rifle. No drilling in the receiver whatsoever. You are free to copy my design for your own use if you wish so but for mass manufacturing talk to me first please !!!
I tested it at the range and it surpassed my expectations. Very solid platform.. . . Its being held in place by the stock screw and another screw that replaces the lower handguard crosspin. It is 1/4" x3/4" steel flat welded to the buttstock plate (Numrich has them).
Click to expand...

kasat_126-2657_IMG.jpg


kasat_126-2650_IMG.jpg


kasat_126-2651_IMG.jpg


kasat_126-2652_IMG.jpg


kasat_126-2653_IMG.jpg
 
This is very impressive. It uses the same rail as the one I used, but the way it is attatched (if it really is solid ) is far better.
 
VZ-58/CZ-858 "No-Drill" Scope Mounts - Progress ?

Yes, it looks very solid - that's why I found it interesting. That, and the fact that I was working on something very similar.

Up to now, I have seen _at_least_ four "no drill" prototype mounts in various threads: Kasat's long side mount, Kasat's top rail mount, John Marshall's top rail mount, and one other by a member who has asked that I not use his name.

The top rail mounts look impressive, and I am assuming that careful measurement and construction will minimize the problem of ejecting brass hitting a scope or jamming the ejection.

The side rail mounts I have seen seem to come in two varieties. The first, Kasat's, uses an east-bloc style removable mount base. To that, I assume, you add your east-block scope mount (and scope, maybe) of choice.

kasat_126-2657_IMG.jpg


kasat_126-2650_IMG.jpg


The second is similar to Kasat's, (although it was developed completely independently), and has integral to it a mount that curves over the rear dust cover and has mounted on top of that a section of Picatinny rail. Sorry, no pictures yet for that one.

The "top rail" mountings by Kasat

kasat_top_rail_001.jpg


and John Marshall

VZscopemountfinal5.jpg


both look very impressive - well made and very strong.

All seem to have their advantages and disadvantages. I have also thought that a no-drill mount might be made that "sandwiches" the receiver in some way, perhaps using the milled-out sections on the outside as part of the positioning system.

The other big question I have still not answered is what scope to put on the CZ-858.

On the VZ-58 I have opted for a HoloSight on a front upper handguand mount (currently using a home-made rail like those seen in the monster thread, but may go for the ###y Israili FAB setup).

The "scout" mount that MarStar used to sell seemed like a good idea, but you are then limited to fairly small scopes (physically) with very long eye relief. Those are few and far between if they have any magnification at all.

On the 858, I would like to have something that would be useful for longer ranges. A 3-9x40 seems a logical stepping off point, or a fixed 6- or 8- power scope.

East Bloc or "western" manufacture is the next question, and will determine to a large extent the scope mounting system to be used. A POSP 8x42 will need a very different setup to an Elite 3200 or even a crappy Tasco.

A limited budget taxes the ingenuity, I suppose.

All in all, more questions than answers. :confused::runaway:
 
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I think the scope in the picture is not centred over the bore, if so there will be no problems with ejected cases.
My mount is centred over the bore but I can only use a red dot or a mini scope on it due to ejecting cases.
 
I came across an interesting discovery yesterday. B-Square make a series of scope mounting kits for shotguns. They call them "Shotgun Saddle Mounts". Some of them are just the mount, some include a low-power (2x or 4x) compact optic.

What is interesting is that among the great variety of sizes and varieties of mounts, there is one for a Mossberg 500 that looks, at first glance, like it might be adaptable to the 858.

Mossberg500mount.jpg


These mounts are designed to fit _over_ the shotgun receiver, and as such are roughly a "U" shape, wit screw holes at the points of the "U", and a rail mounted at the peak of the curve of the "U".

The mount for the Mossberg has two holes right at the rear. Measuring the width between the holes on the inside of the mount and the top-bottom clearance, it looks as if this will fit right over the rear dust cover of the 858 receiver. The mounting bolt supplied with the mount would be too large in diameter to fit through the hole for the dust cover retaining pin, but a smaller-diameter bolt could be fitted in place of the pin.

I don't know yet how the front part could be supported, except to say that there is plenty of meat on the mount to drill and tap screws that would form a "clamp" on either side of the receiver.

Also interesting is that the R.H. side of the mount is cut away somewhat, and the cutout matches (mostly) the ejection area of the 858. Not perfectly, but with a Dremel the clearance could be enlarged.

I didn't buy one right away because I wanted to do some sketches and think really hard about how to make it go on and off and easily return to zero.

All the same, there's an interesting possibility here, perhaps.
 
You gotta remember that the vz58 will eject rounds into your mount and the shock will be transfered to the scope via the mount so you will want the mount to be firmly attached to the reciever as in screwed to it so the force is distributed througnout the rifle and the mount itself doesn't move.
 
suprathepeg said:
You gotta remember that the vz58 will eject rounds into your mount and the shock will be transfered to the scope via the mount so you will want the mount to be firmly attached to the reciever as in screwed to it so the force is distributed througnout the rifle and the mount itself doesn't move.
Click to expand...

Yep. It would have to be pretty darn solid to stand up to those repeated impacts. Mine throws empties about 20 feet in the air.
 
I wasn't sure which of the many Red Rifles optics-related threads to post this in, but I figured this one was the most relevant.
Before going any further, this is Kasat's creation, so let's all say thanks to him.

Okay, I want to put a scope on my VZ, but I have a few questions, so please bear with me:

This is the side rail on the rifle:
IMG_7454.jpg


This is the mount with the shell deflector:
IMG_7452.jpg


From another angle:
IMG_7450.jpg


And from another:
IMG_7453.jpg


Now I've put up this mount next to another that a buddy had lying around to show that there are non-standardized.

Here the height difference is shown:
IMG_7455.jpg


And here, it's harder to see from the picture, but the width is different such that the two mounts will place the optic in different positions side-to-side (i.e. one will be closer to being centered over the bore than the other)
IMG_7457.jpg


1) Would I be better off mounting an optic onto my existing mount, or going for an optic that is integrated into the mount (just for visual reference, something like this: http://w w w.eastwave.ca/products/scopes/posp4x24m.html) in order to minimize the height over bore? I am assuming the integrated unit sits lower because of the lack of rings. Is this correct?

2) If I go with one of those optics that is integrated into the mount, how do I tell that it
a) will fit onto the side rail,
b) will be of the right dimensions to accommodate the shell deflector

Any further info/help you guys can bestow upon me would be greatly appreciated. I am not too familiar with Red Rifle optics, mounts, rails and what not.

Thanks!
 
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Benito said:
I wasn't sure which of the many Red Rifles optics-related threads to post this in, but I figured this one was the most relevant.
Before going any further, this is Kasat's creation, so let's all say thanks to him.

Okay, I want to put a scope on my VZ, but I have a few questions, so please bear with me:


1) Would I be better off mounting an optic onto my existing mount, or going for an optic that is integrated into the mount (just for visual reference, something like this: http://www.eastwave.ca/products/scopes/posp4x24m.html) in order to minimize the height over bore? I am assuming the integrated unit sits lower because of the lack of rings. Is this correct?
Click to expand...

IMO since your side rail is quite sick, the integrated side mount scope would sit too far left, it would be better to use your mount with weaver rail and this type of POSP scope. It's POSP 6x42W.

6x42wl.png


2) If I go with one of those optics that is integrated into the mount, how do I tell that it
a) will fit onto the side rail,
b) will be of the right dimensions to accommodate the shell deflector
Click to expand...

a) will fit but will be way to the left
b) depends on the deflector

Any further info/help you guys can bestow upon me would be greatly appreciated. I am not too familiar with Red Rifle optics, mounts, rails and what not.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm an official importer of these scopes. Please ask anything you would like to know about POSP scopes I will try my best to answer your questions
 
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TeaPot2,
Are you sure the integrated unit would sit further left than my existing mount already does. It's a little bit too high and left for my liking already. (I know that's just a necessary evil when it comes to accommodating the ejection of the casings). That's why I was hoping to at least sit it a bit lower by getting rid of the scope rings.
Does anybody have a picture of an integrated mount/optic unit taken from the front/back of the gun(as if you are looking down the scope) so I can see exactly how much offset this unit is from the bore. All the pictures I find of these units show them from the side of the gun.
Again, thanks.
 
kasat_126-2657_IMG.jpg


How does this bipod attach to the gun? Are those not just factory hand guards? Anyone know who makes those?
 
Based on the pictures it's hard to say exactly which one would be farther left. If I'm not mistaken, the distance between inner face of an integrated mount and the center of a scope is about 38 mm. I will check it out and post all dimensions. If you want to bring the scope lower then I would recommend to go with SVD style mount. Your bracket is an AK style. To bring integrated mount scope closer to the center I've used thin rail. Here are some picks, I would take the picture from the front/back later tonight when I get to my rifles:

dsc01575sz.jpg

dsc01561s.jpg


note an SVD mount (picture borrowed from O'mega)
1-2.jpg
 
TeaPot2 said:
Based on the pictures it's hard to say exactly which one would be farther left. If I'm not mistaken, the distance between inner face of an integrated mount and the center of a scope is about 38 mm. I will check it out and post all dimensions. If you want to bring the scope lower then I would recommend to go with SVD style mount. Your bracket is an AK style. To bring integrated mount scope closer to the center I've used thin rail. Here are some picks, I would take the picture from the front/back later tonight when I get to my rifles:
Click to expand...


Do you mean horizontal distance?
I measured the horizontal and vertical distances on the two mounts seen here:
IMG_7455.jpg

Horizontal distance from inner face to center of rail/scope:
Mount pictured on right: 14mm
Mount pictured on left: ~23-24mm
Vertical distance from bottom of mount to top of (Weaver?) rail:
Mount pictured on right: 102mm
Mount pictured on left: 85mm

Does anyone know what, if any standards there are for AK-style or SVD-style mount dimensions?

It seems to me that there is no standard, as these two mounts I have photographed are both AK-style, yet vary drastically in measurements.

I would ideally like a mount with more horizontal distance (to center the scope over the bore) and less vertical distance (to reduce the height over the bore).

Is there any difference in these distances between AK and SVD mounts?

Aaaaarrrggghhhh!!! Damn you, non-standardized manufacturing methods and practices!!!!!
 
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