Wall hangers, old S x S percussion shotguns

tokguy

tokguy

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Not really a ' What is this worth' thread...but related to the type.
My daughter's Grandfather has asked my help on dealing with his inheritance problem. He is a great guy and I would love to do him a ' square' ( he helped put my daughter through a better school etc ).
I am asked to help liquidate the inherited collection . I can do such a thing pretty handily ( I do pose tough questions here and appreciate you folk's help ).
Right now I'm starring down the bores of trying to move around 30 pieces. A couple of heirloom winchester levers and MANY old shotguns. I counted around 20 S x S shotguns, with an appreciable amount of antiques. Pin fire S x S and percussion are around 50 % of the lot.
I'm assuming that the percussion and pin fires can be used to decorate mancaves as they are non-guns in the CFC's opinion.
But I do need to be able to ensure folks that they will not be breaking the law do so.
Point in case; a good 'Lady friend' would love one. There is a really nice small bore pinfire S x S but her son is a LEO... 24 years old. He is likely a good guy, but is quite convinced that having the vest and glock make him all knowing as far as firearms. "If it can be fired...it's a gun and you have no PAL" ...verboten!
Ever tried to deal with an all knowing ( a slightly protective son to boot ) 24 year old LEO? I don't want to start of on a bad foot by schooling him, but still need to get him on board with antique speak so to speak.
Any advice or help with link's concerning non guns are greatly appreciated. And I have gone through the sticky's BTW. Some help there, but I need to be well versed and armed with nessesary regs going into the LEO son thing. I think that I can manage the disarming manner, but any advice, links or pointers on dialing down the 'I know because I'm LE ' would be great.
Mod's I hope this is cricket. It could be a legalese question, but often this forum is much better at antique questions. Cheers
 
IIRC in cartridges other than 10,12,16,20 & 28 and 410 is a stipulation. And 'prior to 1898' is known ( but the advice is appreciated still )already.
Which pinfires and authenticate front stuffers dodge.
My antique dealings have been with folks knowledgeable of them, not skeptics. So I'm not used to dealing with folks who aren't knowledgable in antiques. Let alone one's who have 'bracelets on their belt'.
Hence this post, I need links or proof to change the son's mind on the matter.
 
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Trimmer 905 said:
From what I've read in The Firearms Act,firearms built BEFORE 1898 are classified as antiques and don't meet the criteria requiring a PAL. If the firearms were built after that,then,the young cop is correct.
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The above is not completely correct; there are exclusion clauses in the pre 1898 category; designated cartridges are not classed as antiques. The muzzle loaders fall under cc84 1a and the challenge is proving that they are pre 1898. I think the UK and the US stopped building muzzle loaders well before 1898 and in the case of Belgian shotguns, if they do not have a crown over the oval ELG proof mark, they are unquestionably pre 1898 (the proof mark changed in 1893) The pinfires fall under cc 84 1b which says that guns prescribed to be antiques, are antiques and SOR 98-464 covers pinfires. cc 84-3. says you do not need a license to own them.

bottom line is tell the LEO to read those particular sections of law and then tell you why they do not apply in your case. Also re the people wanting to display them as wall hangers, they need to be stored securely like a modern gun but that does not necessarily mean they need to be locked in a safe or similar. If they are fastened to the wall with say a U bolt so that they cannot be taken down, that should meet the regulations

final note is that pinfires as a category can be shot but they are a pain in the bum to load for and in the case of doubles, the hammers greatly restrict your vision of the target

cheers mooncoon
 
Teaser number one... What appears to be a percussion side by side shotgun has three folding Express sights on it! One can only wonder what that will be...
 
QM 86 said:
Shoot me a Pm. I'm lookin to buy some for my collection. Bess,Springfield,Winchester whole or parts. No pics needed.
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LOL, nice try. But we are Canadian, more Panache to the collection. Westley Richards, J. Egan, Hollis or Powell...that's how Bear Paw rolled ( original owner )
 
rgbai said:
I would just print off the antique classification page from the rcmp website and hand him that
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Yes yes yes yes yes..... Yes.

And then highlight the pertinent information for him. All you need to say is "that is not correct, here is proof" Don't waste your time saying more than that.
 
He's not the enemy to me guys, he's my gal's son. I have to handle this right. I do appreciate input...but slapping down a Cabela's ad( effective as it might be ) won't help me win anyone over LOL.
No flinters in the bunch anyhow... front stuffers ( with caps) and a REALLY NICE 410 pinfire are about the the extent of genuine antiques.
I've been running dawn til dusk...so no good pictures as of yet, likely Saturday I'll snap a few pics to repay for the advice ( we like pictures...) and put a bunch on the EE.
Some neat pieces, nothing really valuable. S x S usually have a cracked wrist from this era.
A Damascus bbl'd hammerless Parker, a Greener, a Westley Richard's, the Hollis with Express sights is cool ( smoothbore elephant gun ?)... but cool is usually accompanied by the bad details somewhere.
I know have 6 safes and 60 pieces in my basement, LOL. Wow!
 
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tokguy said:
, the Hollis with Express sights is cool ( smoothbore elephant gun ?)..!
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measure the bore at the muzzle and measure both the height and width of the hole. the gun could be an oval bore or it could be a rifle reamed to a shotgun. I have a 12 guage oval bore gun and the bore is .018" out of round and make 1/2 turn in the length of the barrel

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
T......... Also re the people wanting to display them as wall hangers, they need to be stored securely like a modern gun but that does not necessarily mean they need to be locked in a safe or similar. If they are fastened to the wall with say a U bolt so that they cannot be taken down, that should meet the regulations.......
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Locking it to the wall would certainly qualify.

For non-restricted long guns I believe that they don't need to be secured to a fixed object. They only need to be disabled from firing. Removing the bolt in a bolt action rifle or trigger locking or something of that sort. So it should be enough that part of the mounting of the old shotgun includes fixing through the trigger guard to prevent the triggers from being pulled. The whole back board and shotgun as one may be able to be lifted off the wall. But if it requires tools or a key to remove the shotgun from the board I believe it's still considered as "safe storage".

That's aside from antique status. If it can't be proven to be an antique then she would still need to either have it deactivated or get a PAL.
 
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