Walther P1 vs Tokarev TT33
- Thread starter cote_b
- Start date
Mine is Chinese, but I believe it works with Russians too. It prefers FMJ, but is it as accurate as much more expensive 9mm pistols (I did fit the bushing).
I find the Czech mega hot ammo to have about the same felt recoil as the 9mm, but I am so tactical (on a good day I'm strategic) the word "civilian" doesn't really apply.
I'm sure a P38/P1 would be fun too.
Both the Tokarev and P1 are good buys, though I would tend to favour the P1
I picked up a P1 with the heavier slide and hex pin in the frame when Tradeex had some on sale for $225 about two years ago. I researched it ahead of time and was told that this was the best version on account of some of the frames cracking on the earlier models. For the most part, these pistols were used in German military service, at some point rearsenalled and put back into storage with little or no use.
Handguns are a secondary shooting hobby to me after my hunting firearms and milsurp rifles, but I've managed to pick up several surplus guns or inexpensive Norincos (1911A1 and Woodsman clone) over the years. I find the P1 the most accurate of the bunch, probably due to a combination of its ergonomics and inherent accuracy. My 9mm Yugo Tok is in similarly great shape, fun and relaible to shoot, but harder to shoot as accurately.
More recently I have picked up a TT33 from Tradeex but hadn't been able to shoot it yet, firstly because it took time to find some ammo, and then because the main club that I shoot with goes to an indoor range in the winter (no Tok ammo allowed). So I'll have to wait until the spring before I can say much about the Tok itself, but in the meantime can vouch for the fact that my Tradeex example arrived in great condition. I've found milsurp, commercial ammo and reloading components, and will probably put together some reloads until I can shoot outside again.
On last but not insignificant point regarding availability. TheP38/P1s were imported into the US and to Canada in considerable numbers a few years ago, which made them available at very reasonable costs. I have been advised however that since then, Germany and a few other Western European nations signed on to arms control treaties that oblige them to destroy their military surplus firearms rather than releasng them to the market. The German pistols have been effected by the applicable treaty, and it appears as though further stocks will not be forthcoming. It's something worth considering if you see one at a reasonable price.
A feww other friends of mine picked up P1/P38s on account of my telling them about them, and thusfar all were happy with their pistols.
Regards,
Frank
I picked up a P1 with the heavier slide and hex pin in the frame when Tradeex had some on sale for $225 about two years ago. I researched it ahead of time and was told that this was the best version on account of some of the frames cracking on the earlier models. For the most part, these pistols were used in German military service, at some point rearsenalled and put back into storage with little or no use.
Handguns are a secondary shooting hobby to me after my hunting firearms and milsurp rifles, but I've managed to pick up several surplus guns or inexpensive Norincos (1911A1 and Woodsman clone) over the years. I find the P1 the most accurate of the bunch, probably due to a combination of its ergonomics and inherent accuracy. My 9mm Yugo Tok is in similarly great shape, fun and relaible to shoot, but harder to shoot as accurately.
More recently I have picked up a TT33 from Tradeex but hadn't been able to shoot it yet, firstly because it took time to find some ammo, and then because the main club that I shoot with goes to an indoor range in the winter (no Tok ammo allowed). So I'll have to wait until the spring before I can say much about the Tok itself, but in the meantime can vouch for the fact that my Tradeex example arrived in great condition. I've found milsurp, commercial ammo and reloading components, and will probably put together some reloads until I can shoot outside again.
On last but not insignificant point regarding availability. TheP38/P1s were imported into the US and to Canada in considerable numbers a few years ago, which made them available at very reasonable costs. I have been advised however that since then, Germany and a few other Western European nations signed on to arms control treaties that oblige them to destroy their military surplus firearms rather than releasng them to the market. The German pistols have been effected by the applicable treaty, and it appears as though further stocks will not be forthcoming. It's something worth considering if you see one at a reasonable price.
A feww other friends of mine picked up P1/P38s on account of my telling them about them, and thusfar all were happy with their pistols.
Regards,
Frank
Take a look at the pics on the Tradex site at top of page. These feature a pressed in steel pin in the aluminum alloy frame which is readily apparent. At some point in time I picked up one of the loose pins.
There are a couple of other post-war variations of the basic P38/P1. These include the P4 and the P38K. Both featured shorter barrels with a different safety/de-cocking lever. Some of the police surplus P4s were imported in the 1990s. I don't know if any of the P38Ks were imported. I'm not sure if the P4 is in the 12(6) category. The P38K certainly would be because of the snubby bbl.
http://www.shop.tradeexcanada.com/content/walther-p1-pistol-9mm-whex-pin
The hex pin is between the slide release and the takedown lever on the front part of the frame. The reinforced slide can be identified by serrations that extend in front of the decocker/safety lever.
The hex pin is between the slide release and the takedown lever on the front part of the frame. The reinforced slide can be identified by serrations that extend in front of the decocker/safety lever.
Thanks guys!
Well I went with a P1. Put one on layaway at Epps. I just relaized though that the Epps ones are the non-hex pin models. Does this mean Im likely going to have issues with it now? Or will I likely have no problems with it? Ill just be shooting FMJ at an outdoor range.
I still like the Tokarev though, so ill probably get one of those too soon enough!
Thanks for the help guys!
Well I went with a P1. Put one on layaway at Epps. I just relaized though that the Epps ones are the non-hex pin models. Does this mean Im likely going to have issues with it now? Or will I likely have no problems with it? Ill just be shooting FMJ at an outdoor range.
I still like the Tokarev though, so ill probably get one of those too soon enough!
Thanks for the help guys!
The majority of these were made w/o the pin and work just fine. The pin was added in later production to reinforce the aluminum alloy frame as a precaution against cracking. Unless you are going to shoot this piece a great deal or with hotter loads, it is a non-issue.
The pin is supposed to avoid this:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a303/e3mrk/brokenp-1.jpg
MauserMike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- SW Ontario
I think the people cracking their frames are using hot loaded ammo designed for SMGs or +P type ammo.
Stick to standard 115gr FMJ or the equivalent and your P1 will be fine. The German Army basically had these guns in service in one form or another for 50 years!
Personally I prefer my steel frame P38 FWIW.
If you are a volume shooter, tt-33 is your gun. Accurate, they are not. Fun, they are.
P1 on the other hand, was an early alloy frame experiment to replace the steel framed P 38. Some frame weakness problems followed. Hex. pins and beefier slides were later introduced to address these problems. Both versions are good, if you are not a volume shooter.
P1 on the other hand, was an early alloy frame experiment to replace the steel framed P 38. Some frame weakness problems followed. Hex. pins and beefier slides were later introduced to address these problems. Both versions are good, if you are not a volume shooter.
- Location
- London, Ontario
Why do you say the TT-33 is not accurate? Its no target pistol...but either is the P 38.
The aluminum alloy frame P38/P1, w/o the steel cross pin, went into production in the mid 1950s. The pin was only added in 1975 after the West German Army and a host of police forces had been equipped with the non-pin model. The pin was used in both the P38/P1/P4 until production stopped in 1990.
I've owned and shot both the pin and non-pin post-war pistols w/o any difficulties. Unless a person is going to use heavy handloads, or shoot the pistol to a point where it becomes worn out, I wouldn't worry about this. The P38/P1 was proven to be a rugged and reliable service pistol during WW2. This is why the Germans adopted it again as their post war pistol.
I've owned and shot both the pin and non-pin post-war pistols w/o any difficulties. Unless a person is going to use heavy handloads, or shoot the pistol to a point where it becomes worn out, I wouldn't worry about this. The P38/P1 was proven to be a rugged and reliable service pistol during WW2. This is why the Germans adopted it again as their post war pistol.
That's pretty much what I was told by when I bought my postwar P-38. According to a conversation I had with one of my gun club's execs, he warned me to avoid using old surplus ammo meant for use in sten guns and such, since it was loaded hot, and could cause this. I've mostly used Winchester white box 115 grain, and even a few American Eagle 147 grain flat point ammo (though these don't exactly feed the best), and never had a problem.
