Walther P99 worth the price?

[IM_Lugger]

So if one gun lasts longer than another it is not because it was pampered it is because it is more durable.

redleg; what about popularity of the guns? I would guess that a 007 gun or 92FS (the gun you see in every other movie) would be used more often my nubies and non shooters than say XD or Sig (just to name a couple)? Isn't possible at all that some guns brake more often simply because they see more action? I remember you mentioned before that you don't keep track if the number of rounds fired thru each gun...

 

[Laserlips]

Don't worry I don't take anything on the internet personally. And usually I believe even less of it.
One thing that constantly amazes me is that Walther has such a great reputation for firearms. My experience with the P38/P1 is not positive they are exceptionally fragile guns. Yet most people treat them like they are about one of the best service pistols ever made. The P22 and P99 seem to follow the same lead. I know that Walther does have some great guns out there, and I used a GSP in competition for years and loved it. But they have produced dogs too. Sorry but that is just the way it is.
As to maintenence, all the guns on the range receive the same amount of care. So if one gun lasts longer than another it is not because it was pampered it is because it is more durable.

redleg: How bout the Walther P5? (still fishing here.. )

My German surplus (SOG) acquired Walther P5 seems to have been carried a lot, but I doubt it's been shot too much. It shows holster wear on the slide, but the rifling is sharp and well defined. I've only shot 100rds or so thru it, but it so far has been 100% reliable and is quite accurate. I only paid (I think) $429.00 for it +shipping, and $20 to my local ffl dealer for the transfer. I don't know how much that would make it cost in Canada, but I just "likes me' Walthers"

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[ghostie]

After seeing the new bond film I am amazed at the beauty of this gun and its unique mag release position!
Looked into 'em, same price as a new Beretta, more than a Glock.

Go and check one out for yourself. I wouldn't take anything said on these message boards as gospel, including what I say! www.gun-tests.com, which is one of the few gun review outfits that I take seriously, reviewed the P99 a few years back. They gave it a "Buy" rating, noting that "it responds admirably to expert handling." The review was set up head-to-head style with the Glock 19, the (forerunner of) the XD and the (forerunner of) the Steyr M9-A1. The Glock and the Walther got "Buy" ratings. The other two got lower ratings.

In striker-fired polymer pistols, I own a Glock 17, the Steyr M9-A1 and a P99 AS in 9mm. I've got thousands and thousands of rounds through all of these pistols and, for me, the Walther is the class of this field. I find the P99 to be a little more accurate than a Glock for experienced shooters. The other designs have nothing on Walther in terms of durability or reliability. The Glock has a bit more of a "bomb-proof" look and feel to it, but this is purely aesthetics in my view. The grip on the P99 does look a bit more "plasticy" than the other polymer pistols for some reason, but it is a tough little s.o.b. that will keep chugging along, box after box of ammo. At my club here in Vancouver, there are lots of people that have problems with their Glocks and Sigs and USPs and all the other "torture test" guns all the time. These are all awesome guns, but the owners often leave a lot to be desired. "Reliability" is at least 90% the gun owner in most cases.

With auto-loading pistols it's all about how you take care of them. Any of these big name European designs (Walther, Steyr, Glock, Sig, HK, FN, XD, Beretta, etc.) will keep on ticking for a long, long time if you treat them right and, with all these designs, every gun will sooner or later require some sort of replacement part or gunsmithing. That's just the nature of firearms.

The Walther P22 and the Sig Mosquito are probably the most extreme examples of this phenomenon. If you read the message boards, you'd think that these guns were useless hunks of plastic and metal, that the designers should be strung up in the nearest tree and the manufacturers hauled into court on class action lawsuits. Then you keep reading and you find out that these same "expert marksmen" don't even know what the guide rod is for when they buy their P22 and can't even figure out how to put the pistol back together let alone clean and lube it! I own both of these guns and I have a blast with them. The 5" barrel and that fake "compensator" thing on the P22's we have in Canada is a bad idea that doesn't work and should be discontinued, but on mine I just ditched that and had a gunsmith cut and thread the barrel and barrel sleeve to 106mm. I also took it apart and cleaned all that "factory grit" out of it. Ever since then it has been a real little firecracker. Fast shooting, accuracy that rivals my Ruger, and hardly EVER any failures. All 22 ammo, including the Mini Mags, is dirty as all hell and you have to know what you are doing to keep it running smoothly, but it's not the design of the gun or "reliability" or any such thing. I see people having problems with every make and model of .22 pistol, and some of these guns get a bad rap. The P22 is a great little gun. It has no problem with "quality". What it has a problem with is being used by lots of inexperienced shooters, limp wristers, and people that either don't or don't know how to properly clean and lubricate their guns. Walther is a top-notch firearms manufacturer in my view. I'd buy another one in a snap if they came out with a new design that caught my eye.

 

[ghostie]

P.S. - The Americans make some good guns too... Just keeping on the topic of European kit for now.

 

[Laserlips]

FWIW:

www.gun-tests.com actually tested the Walther P99 against the Glock 17, USP9 & Ruger 95DC in Vol. 10, #5, May 1998.

Basically the end result was that in the opinion of the person doing the testing the "Walther P99's workmanship & accuracy were clearly superior to the Glock 17, H&K USP9 and the Ruger 95DC".

Another test involving the Walther P99 against the Glock 19, Steyr M9, and Intracs HS2000 was done in Vol. 13, #4, April 2001. I haven't read that article, so don't know what the test results were.

Of course it doesn't matter too much if GunTests Magazine loved or hated your firearm of choice. If it works for you then you are a happy camper.. If you have had bad results from a particular firearm then you generally are down on the whole brand..

From my decades of personal experience I have found all "things" Walther to be generally excellent and top quality. Additionally I have found, surprisingly, that most any modern name brand pistol/revolver to be accurate and reliable.

I know you can't buy them in Canada, but in the U.S. KelTec makes a series of very light, inexpensive, pistols. If you read one persons post you would think all things KelTec are crap... You might read another post saying KelTec's are the best things since sliced bread..

I have two KelTec's (P32 &P11) and both have been exceptionally accurate (at self defense range), and 100% reliable. That doesn't mean they won't "burp" the next time I try and fire them, but the history I've had personally leads me to believe the little plastic pistols are indeed excellent values, and fill a nitch for cc gun owners.

My two surplus military pistols have also been excellent.. I only paid around $130 (US) for the Spanish Star BM, and $200(US) for the pristine Walther P1. I would trust either as a self defense weapon, as both have proven to be accurate and reliable.. Basically that's all you can ask of a firearm.

I simply cannot argue with someone who runs a gun range and rents firearms.. Rental "anythings" are just not maintained and used in the same manner as they would have been if purchased new and privately owned.

In my decades of firearm ownership the firearms I have bought and sold a considerable number of firearms.. The ones I didn't care for, for whatever reason, are long gone. The ones I have kept have proven to be accurate and reliable..

It's all subjective anyway.

Best Wishes,

JP

 

[ghostie]

FWIW:
Another test involving the Walther P99 against the Glock 19, Steyr M9, and Intracs HS2000 was done in Vol. 13, #4, April 2001. I haven't read that article, so don't know what the test results were.

This is the test I was referring to in my post. The G19 and the P99 got "Buy" ratings. The Steyr and the "XD" (as it is now called) got "Conditional Buy" ratings. The XD suffered on accuracy (too many "fliers", but this may have improved since Springfield came into the picture). The Steyr was held back because the testers didn't like the trapazoid sites, but would rate it a "Buy" if your replaced it with 3 dot sites. Steyr makes a facotry 3 dot site available now and it's easily accomplished. I admit that this is the hardest part of the Steyr to get used to. When you first start it's fine out to about 10-15 meters, then it starts to play tricks on you the rest of the way out to 25. I would probably have changed mine to 3 dot, but I have a bunch of 3 dot guns, and I'm always looking for something different. Now I'm used to it though and it works fine. It's all about familiarity. Steyr is another "can't lose" gunmaker in my view. Their trigger is a big improvement on the Glock idea, plus I really like the look of it.

 

[IM_Lugger]

yes Steyr is a neat little gun; I've built a shoulder stock for mine and it's a blast to shoot.

 

[Big JD-From the hills]

I hold redlegs opinion in high regard, I have been to TSE... stand up people/company! You can't baby a firearm and somehow make parts not break. Sure you can lube and clean, but if somethings going to break, it will break anyway.

 

[Gundoggy]

When I went to another range in Edmonton to check out STI guns one fellow there quickly advised me to 'sell my P99 and get a stronger gun'.

Patrick Sweeney's second book on the 1911 talks about longevity...50K to 200K on some 1911 pistols. Of course an early article on the P99 also talked about 50K + rounds through test guns.

I did end up ordering an STI ranger II in 9mm. The fellow at Freedom Ventures is quite helpful as well as Phoenix range staff and 1911 parts are easy to find. Also it's easy to replace parts yourself.

I believe the 1911's at TSE had good longevity results as well if I recall Redleg's past posts.

 

[Jamie]

is the P99 worth the price.....NO



Jamie Barkwell

 

[Laserlips]

is the P99 worth the price.....NO



Jamie Barkwell

FWIW:

Perhaps in Canada the Walther P99 series of pistols are considered "not worth the price". I can assure you that in the U.S. the Walther P99's are indeed well respected for quality and are indeed "worth the price".

If you have the interest peruse the American firearm forums such as www.glocktalk.com, or www.thehighroad.com, or any other of your choice and see for yourself what percentage of posts regarding the Walther P99 series of pistols are negative.

Maybe you can fiind some, I couldn't.

I realize I'm not going to change your mind, so no sense in beating this dead horse any longer. All I can say is I have a P99c/AS and love it, and hope to buy another, full sized P99 in the future..

Also, any input regarding the durability or reliablity of a "rental" firearm simply cannot be representative of that lline of firearms in general. You know as well as I do that "rental anything" will be "run hard and put up wet", not cared for properly, and not representative of that same product if purchased new by a private owner..

I'm sure those folks who rent firearms would disagree..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

 

[redleg]

redleg; what about popularity of the guns? I would guess that a 007 gun or 92FS (the gun you see in every other movie) would be used more often my nubies and non shooters than say XD or Sig (just to name a couple)? Isn't possible at all that some guns brake more often simply because they see more action? I remember you mentioned before that you don't keep track if the number of rounds fired thru each gun...

In the short term I suppose that some guns are more popular than others, but once the popular ones break the unpopular ones need to fill the gaps in selection. Also if the popular ones are in use, people use what is available at the time. So in the end most guns end up with close round counts, assuming they last a fair period of time. The P99s never did.

 

[acrashb]

Maybe you can fiind some, I couldn't.

Try harder: http://www.gothammarketing.com/bb/waltherforum/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=1;t=4177;hl=failure . And that, along with the other posts about various failures, is on a Walther-friendly board.

They're good guns - I really liked mine - but to continue to argue about durability over time in the face of objective evidence is silly.

The two most common failures were/are the mag baseplates, the firing group (a portion of which can break off where a pin goes through it), and the ejectors.

An average shooter / concealed carry user might not do the round count to run across issues. Others will.

 

[Ir0nSpIkE]

The real question is what is it worth to you? For me it was worth that price. It is the pistol that fit my hand the best. I also have a Beretta 92FS Brigadier and a few other guns. I’ve also been lucky enough to try a number of other guns. But I still like and shoot better with my P99 then my 92FS or any other gun I’ve tried.

Like Laserlips and many other intelligent and more experience people have pointed out all over this forum, the factors that will make the gun worth the price are varied. The questions you should ask are the same that is suggested to all those other guys that ask “what should my 1st pistol be?”. Ask your self all those “does it fit? Is it the right caliber? questions. In the end the gun that best fits your hand and what you want to do with it will be the best choice. If it does everything you want it to do then it will fit you. The better it fists, the better you’ll shoot it and the more you’ll want to shoot it. This will lead in the end to a great day at the range doing something you enjoy. Something that gives you that much enjoyment is well worth the money.

Oh, being a Bond gun doesn’t hurt too.

 

[Gundoggy]

Of course the solution is simple. If the gun does fit you well. And for me the P99 is one of the most accurate pistols due to the grip shape.
Learn how to detail strip and replace parts...or find someone who does.

Order a large supply of spare parts.

Done!

Of course I'm paranoid about reliability so I keep the P99 as a Bond gun and moved to more durable ones....


Hey Acrashb...did you get rid of your P99?

 

[acrashb]

Hey Acrashb...did you get rid of your P99?

Sadly, yes. The top part of the backstrap that curves down on the early models, where the beavertail would be on a 1911, bit into a thumb joint with each shot unless I held it perfectly.