Want to be a gunsmith?
- Thread starter 7x61
- Start date
I am planning on doing some smith work at home. I have had a machine shop at home for around 5 years, doing mostly stuff for work.
I took a bunch of sait night classes and learned a bunch of basic machining skills recently. Nice to get some formal instruction.
I have a millrite turret mill, recently upgraded to a standard modern 13x30 lathe from a pos chinese lathe. Lots of tooling, I have horiz and vert saws, large and small belt sanders, grinders, tig welder...etc...
pretty much everything needed!
I took a bunch of sait night classes and learned a bunch of basic machining skills recently. Nice to get some formal instruction.
I have a millrite turret mill, recently upgraded to a standard modern 13x30 lathe from a pos chinese lathe. Lots of tooling, I have horiz and vert saws, large and small belt sanders, grinders, tig welder...etc...
pretty much everything needed!
Big_red_truck
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Labrador , the big land
Most gun smith's I know do it as a hobby , But I agree with , seems to me like gunsmiths are a dying race where I live!
Great post....It's sad to say but it is a fact that alot of gun owners think that what comes out of the box is what it is and not what it can be.Then again some don't care. I myself can honestly say "if I only had the room and and more instruction on machining and of course $'s available, I could really get into it" god knows I've got the time. Again good post. Rife Ling
No kidding! I bought a remington 597 two years ago that was supplied with a rusted out pipe for a barrel! Now being in Canada Remington wouldn't do anything for me but give me a number to call that never called back!
What was I to do? Luckily a friends father turned me onto a solution and did a recrown on the barrel too wich had a burr from the machineing process still on it! Some quality control eh?! Now being highly mechanical and some base machineing skills have allowed me to polish,smooth bed and tighten her into a tack driver.
If only there were aprenticeships available to learn to be a true machineing gunsmith. I'd be in heaven lol
I was online and looking at the "cracker jack box" gunsmith courses available. Lol basically everything I have done already (except choke tubes). I want to do rechamberings,barrel work,wild cats, MAKE parts for antique guns, make dies for obsolete calibers etc etc. If only there was someone willing to teach an enthusiastic inteligent young man. Can't even begin to afford going to a school in Colorado USA!
From what I've seen its not just the gunsmithing and machining trades that have masters leaving without passing on the knowledge. Its a universal trend from labourers on up. And its because of the "do more for less, faster" atitude. I meen minimum wage and indeed wages in general are higher than ever before, But what does that money buy you? Take for instance the isue previously stated about my Rem.597 that would have never left the factory yesteryear. But someone probably had a production quota to meet. And how much do you think that worker knows about his job? He is probably only familiar with one aspect of the rifles manufacture,as are all of his coworkers.So now that factory may not produce any gunsmiths at all. Especially with the hi automation factor.
I gave up my 40.00 plus an hour future (80,000.00 to 120,000.00 a year) as a long shoreman here in B.C. , to open up shop as a specialized riflesmith/stock maker
70% of my knowledge gleaned from an ederly ex usmc armourer/friend in south dakota, usa. The rest over the past 5 years dealing with chinese rifles here in canada.as Gunnar says, specialize, specialize, specialize. This will be your bread and butter work and what your reputation will be based on
Give me a couple years and I will be looking at taking on an apprentice in the b.c. interior. If my sons show no interest in taking over the business one day..... I'll go outside the family to grow the business.I love what i do, and leaving long shoring for what i love to do was not a hard decision to make. I got tired of sitting in my machine watching raw logs go by the boat load to china and elsewhere.... it was a moral decision LOL. I also have the benefit of a wife who works in health care and loves that i love what i do hehehehe.
If I can chip in here, for a first post on this site. Gunsmithing is a hell of a hard way to make a living, I know, I've been there and done that myself, so I have a little experience to offer the neophyte.
Firstly, you really need a good, and I mean really good grounding in tool room engineering work. I.e. Lathe, Mill, Shaper, Precision Grinder and hand fitting. That's not available on a few weeks long College Course, or on a ten year long Correspondence Course. To be honest, most of these are a waste of your time and money.
Ideally, a fulltime training course is the way to go. Here in the U/K that means at least a five year apprenticeship, just to learn your basic engineering skills. You simply can't learn the engineering skills you will need in six or twelve months.
The day of the 'All Round' Gunsmith is more or less over, firearms are too diversified and complex for one man to be familiar with all types of weapons. The name of the game today is specialisation. That means you have to find out what is in demand in your area. It may be Practical Pistol Shooting, or BPCR, or Long Range target shooting etc. But whatever is most popular is where your skills should be focused, and your work be most in demand.
The days of the gunsmith who could create a rifle, pistol or shotgun from scratch are long gone. If your good at metalwork do the smithing, if your good at heat treatment, (colour case hardening) stick to that, If your a wizzard with wood, stick to stocking and checkering.
There are many people out there who have a fantastic reputation in very specialised fields within gunsmithing, and many have a backlog of work over months or in some cases years. Nice work if your good enough.
In any job or occupation there are those who have the skills, and there are those who don't. The decision of whether you have the skills, relies on you being honest with yourself.
I've no axe to grind here, I'm retired on on a small, but sufficient pension. I have a small mill, a small lathe and a bench shaper along with a ton of tooling gathered over half a century. I potter along doing things that please me, rather than working for someone else. I've had a specific dream about building a certain rifle since I was in my teens, (I'm now in my late 60's), but I'm living my own personal dream which is more than 50 years old, I have my rifle more than half made, and although injury prevents me from working more than 20 minutes at a time, there's no one happier than me.
Gunsmithing is not a way to make a lot of money, there are a few skilled exponents of parts of the gunsmiths art that do make a very good living, but they are few and far between.
My best advice, start off learning your trade, work on guns in your spare time until you have a well known reputation, and then, and only then, make the final decision to go off on your own full time.
May I wish all of you the best of luck if you go this route.
Harry
Firstly, you really need a good, and I mean really good grounding in tool room engineering work. I.e. Lathe, Mill, Shaper, Precision Grinder and hand fitting. That's not available on a few weeks long College Course, or on a ten year long Correspondence Course. To be honest, most of these are a waste of your time and money.
Ideally, a fulltime training course is the way to go. Here in the U/K that means at least a five year apprenticeship, just to learn your basic engineering skills. You simply can't learn the engineering skills you will need in six or twelve months.
The day of the 'All Round' Gunsmith is more or less over, firearms are too diversified and complex for one man to be familiar with all types of weapons. The name of the game today is specialisation. That means you have to find out what is in demand in your area. It may be Practical Pistol Shooting, or BPCR, or Long Range target shooting etc. But whatever is most popular is where your skills should be focused, and your work be most in demand.
The days of the gunsmith who could create a rifle, pistol or shotgun from scratch are long gone. If your good at metalwork do the smithing, if your good at heat treatment, (colour case hardening) stick to that, If your a wizzard with wood, stick to stocking and checkering.
There are many people out there who have a fantastic reputation in very specialised fields within gunsmithing, and many have a backlog of work over months or in some cases years. Nice work if your good enough.
In any job or occupation there are those who have the skills, and there are those who don't. The decision of whether you have the skills, relies on you being honest with yourself.
I've no axe to grind here, I'm retired on on a small, but sufficient pension. I have a small mill, a small lathe and a bench shaper along with a ton of tooling gathered over half a century. I potter along doing things that please me, rather than working for someone else. I've had a specific dream about building a certain rifle since I was in my teens, (I'm now in my late 60's), but I'm living my own personal dream which is more than 50 years old, I have my rifle more than half made, and although injury prevents me from working more than 20 minutes at a time, there's no one happier than me.
Gunsmithing is not a way to make a lot of money, there are a few skilled exponents of parts of the gunsmiths art that do make a very good living, but they are few and far between.
My best advice, start off learning your trade, work on guns in your spare time until you have a well known reputation, and then, and only then, make the final decision to go off on your own full time.
May I wish all of you the best of luck if you go this route.
Harry
I have made the trasition as well to gunsmithing. I haven't left my day job as it affords me the opportunity to but nice equipment and my gunsmithing work is intended as a retirement job. The cost of equipment and small tools for example can easily excede $20,000.00 I'm in the range of $30,000.00 now and will break $40,000.00 by the end of the year.
I am also fortunate to have a very strong machining and mechanical background so barrel fitting etc was straight forward. My advice is to read everything you can get your hands on and when you are done read it again. The other perhaps most important item is this "Good enough isn't good enough, it has to be perfect." Don't put any work out the door that you wouldn't want for your own.
I have choosen to specialize in Rem 700 makeovers.
I am also fortunate to have a very strong machining and mechanical background so barrel fitting etc was straight forward. My advice is to read everything you can get your hands on and when you are done read it again. The other perhaps most important item is this "Good enough isn't good enough, it has to be perfect." Don't put any work out the door that you wouldn't want for your own.
I have choosen to specialize in Rem 700 makeovers.
Cowboy Trucker
New member
- Location
- Chatham ON
Maqaiti, I'm also thinking of taking the Firearms Repair course. How far into it are you? Do you find the lessons challenging? If one can only put a couple of hours a week into it, do you think it can be completed in 2 years or less?
Thanks
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I have offered my time in lieu of an apprenticeship to 2 gunsmiths in the area I can easily reach. Both turned me down even though they are so busy, they hardly ever have time to get the stuff out the door. I have had 2 P-13's at one establishment for re-chambering and it took well over a year.
I guess I will continue with what I do now and learn as I go on my own. That's how I learned other stuff.
I guess I will continue with what I do now and learn as I go on my own. That's how I learned other stuff.
First real post so please be gentle with me..
OK, now there is a gunsmith local to me. I was going to go and see him but I cannot justify paying the money to re-sight a rifle for my son which is already getting too small for him. So I got to thinking about researching how to do work like that for myself, then I realised there may well be a market for re-sighting and re-stocking firearms, especially for young people and smaller adults. It seems that there could be all sorts of things could be done with enough care so full sized firearm could be adjustable.
While I have had no formal engineering training since secondary school, and my woodworking skills are now largely based on nails, I am competent enough and do not like the idea of 'good enough'.
I thought I could do it on a spare-time basis as I am away a lot of the time.. Any thoughts on this?
OK, now there is a gunsmith local to me. I was going to go and see him but I cannot justify paying the money to re-sight a rifle for my son which is already getting too small for him. So I got to thinking about researching how to do work like that for myself, then I realised there may well be a market for re-sighting and re-stocking firearms, especially for young people and smaller adults. It seems that there could be all sorts of things could be done with enough care so full sized firearm could be adjustable.
While I have had no formal engineering training since secondary school, and my woodworking skills are now largely based on nails, I am competent enough and do not like the idea of 'good enough'.
I thought I could do it on a spare-time basis as I am away a lot of the time.. Any thoughts on this?
OMG! I got an insidelook at the gunsmithing course( the book was DONATED to an Ottawa library. I have to say that the lessens taught are thus;(memory here) Remington 700 disasembly reasembly extractor change. Rem 870 disassembly reassembly triger group swap. Savage 22 semi auto disassembly reassembly magazine lip tweak. Savage pumpaction 12gau dis/reassembly choke tube ream,tap,insert .......the list goes on but There are such captions in the book as "if trigger group is found to be at fault return to factory" ie We are not teaching you REAL gunsmithing but more like advanced maintenance. In short BS money grab. There is nothing about custom work,AR series rifles, rechambering,part making.....none of that. If you own guns and want to maintain your own and the course is free then maybee but I would rather spend my time taking a machinists preapprenticeship program.
MAN..!!!!!...What a great thread!...Guns are my passion. Just ask any of my friends and especially the "LIL WIFEY"..I took the old "North American Correspondence School"...GUN PRO COURSE"..back in 1980( HOLY EFF...I'm gettin old)...This course back then cost me almost 900.00 bucks!!...When you progressed so far along, with passing grades....BTW..the tests HAD to be mailed in and then, MAILED BACK to ME!!..No Interweb!!.(holy eff, I'm gettin old)...I think there were 17(?) shop manuals and 17(?) test/review manuals with tons of photos, detailed descriptions of every aspect of the job at hand. I read this stuff cover to cover...between Long Haul trucking trips. Every few chapters you got a few basic tools that would help you with the lessons coming up. Forresters Screwdriver Set...Checkering Tools w/ replacement cutters...polishing stones/hones...GO & NO GO Gauges for a few cals..Firearms Assembly..Vol 3&4...Weaver Scope Repair kit(bonus buy for 20 bucks)...Brownells Shim kit...New Marbles front sight(30-30)..Shotgun Sight Installers...etc...I found it VERY interesting, all of it. wasn't a bad read at all. That started me on the tinkering path then, and I've been doing it ever since. Sporterized a few Swede 96's, bolts, triggers,side safety or low swing safetys, restocking,glass bedding, lapping lugs, recrowned barrels,done some trigger work to a few rifles, polished a few shotgun bores, recoil pads, hand rubbed tru-oiled finishes on stocks...like I said tinkering...but I ABSOLUTELY LOOOOVE IT!! Health issues in ' 04 - '06 forced me to sell off all my handguns(exept my prohibited one)...some of my rifles also. But slowly making a bit of a comeback since '07 till present. My daily routine everyday, somewhere every single day, guns are talked about, phoned about, mentioned, or checked out on the web!!...cordin to the Lil Wifey...."he's a friggin "gunnutt"....heh heh heh...now I ask you..in ALLL honesty,..what better forum could I possibly belong to???..LMAO... Here's a toast to the "Smiths" of yesterday and today!!...oh yea...to the CNC guys too!...
.I took the old "North American Correspondence School"...GUN PRO COURSE"..back in 1980( HOLY EFF...I'm gettin old)...This course back then cost me almost 900.00 bucks!!...When you progressed so far along, with passing grades....BTW..the tests HAD to be mailed in and then, MAILED BACK to ME!!..No Interweb!!.(holy eff, I'm gettin old)...I think there were 17(?) shop manuals and 17(?) test/review manuals with tons of photos, detailed descriptions of every aspect of the job at hand. I read this stuff cover to cover...between Long Haul trucking trips. Every few chapters you got a few basic tools that would help you with the lessons coming up. Forresters Screwdriver Set...Checkering Tools w/ replacement cutters...polishing stones/hones...GO & NO GO Gauges for a few cals..Firearms Assembly..Vol 3&4...Weaver Scope Repair kit(bonus buy for 20 bucks)...Brownells Shim kit...New Marbles front sight(30-30)..Shotgun Sight Installers...etc...I found it VERY interesting, all of it. wasn't a bad read at all. That started me on the tinkering path then, and I've been doing it ever since. Sporterized a few Swede 96's, bolts, triggers,side safety or low swing safetys, restocking,glass bedding, lapping lugs, recrowned barrels,done some trigger work to a few rifles, polished a few shotgun bores, recoil pads, hand rubbed tru-oiled finishes on stocks...like I said tinkering...but I ABSOLUTELY LOOOOVE IT!! Health issues in ' 04 - '06 forced me to sell off all my handguns(exept my prohibited one)...some of my rifles also. But slowly making a bit of a comeback since '07 till present. My daily routine everyday, somewhere every single day, guns are talked about, phoned about, mentioned, or checked out on the web!!...cordin to the Lil Wifey...."he's a friggin "gunnutt"....heh heh heh...now I ask you..in ALLL honesty,..what better forum could I possibly belong to???..LMAO... Here's a toast to the "Smiths" of yesterday and today!!...oh yea...to the CNC guys too!...
