mebiuspower
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Only the Sig is modular, hence why they're being sued by Steyr for violating patent rights.
Want to buy the Glock that lost the Army handgun competition?
- Thread starter Big Bad
- Start date
Only the Sig is modular, hence why they're being sued by Steyr for violating patent rights.
I do fancy myself somewhat if a 1911 guy, but the history of it is so long and the models so varied that there. If what I understand is correct, the first version would go off when dropped so when WWII came around a different safety mechanism was introduced. Down the road came the Series 80, which I believe was still for drop safe related reasons. There are people more knowledgeable than I that would know better though.
Caveat, I'm a Sig owner and never owned a Glock. I might buy a Glock for the novelty of it but I'd never sell my 226.
I think you could be right about it (Sig 320) being a better pistol for their purpose but I don't see the US army going with the Sig 320 over a Glock as bragging rights necessarily.
The Sig was picked to supply the US army of which the majority aren't warfighters. Cooks, supply techs, mechanics, helicopter refuelers, radar screen readers and ####. I'd have to look into it but if the US army is anything like ours then the majority of warfighters at the troop level don't get issued pistols anyways. (quick check of pics online and it seems hit or miss)
US Special Operations however, whom I'd argue are more pointy-end focused, picked the Glock 19.
SOF use their pistols much more than regular soldiers, including as primary weapons, so to me that says a lot.
I do agree the nanner nanner Sig vs Glock vs whatever seems juvenile. Maybe people are trying to live vicariously through what guns they shoot on a target range? Crazy.
Still alive
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The Series 80 was Colt's significant attempt to incorporate a hammer drop safety to bring a 70 yr old design closer in line with more modern offerings. For the purists, it was sacrilege as it affected the trigger pull and feel slightly. At that time, gun folks were snapping up all the 70s they could find in fear that Colt ruined the 1911 with the hammer drop safety. As with all nostalgia and old things, younger folks bought into the " Series 70 is so much better than a Series 80" so the S70s are getting to be more collectible and desirable now.
The original Series 80 triggers were a bit heavier and grittier. The current guns that employ the same technology feel a lot better than the ones from 30 years ago to the point that there isn't much difference between untuned guns.
Here us a NEWS release from SIG Dated Aug/17. Sorry guys I should have just did a 5 second "Fact Check". No wonder President Trump gets away with lying every other day and 34% of Americans instantly believe him. Who wants to be the first Glock lover to comment that is is all a giant cover up.....?
"Reports in recent days have called into question the safety of SIG SAUER’s popular P320pistol, the very same platform recently selected by the US Army. These rumors have spread through the internet and social media to the extent that the Dallas Police Department temporarily suspended their approval of officers who chose to carry P320’s on duty (the primary duty gun for the DPD is the SIG P226). As a result of what SIG considers unfounded and inaccurate information (#fakenews), they’ve just issued the following press release:"
The P320 meets and exceeds all U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI), as well as rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies.
All SIG SAUER pistols incorporate effective mechanical safeties to ensure they only fire when the trigger is pressed. However, like any mechanical device, exposure to acute conditions (e.g. shock, vibration, heavy or repeated drops) may have a negative effect on these safety mechanisms and cause them to not work as designed. This language is common to owner’s manuals of major handgun manufacturers.
As a result, individual attempts to perform drop tests outside of professionally controlled environments should not be attempted.
“SIG SAUER is committed to producing only the finest products,” said Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER. “Safety and reliability have been and always will be paramount to the SIG SAUER brand.”
For more information on SIG SAUER, please visit us at sigsauer.com
Follow SIG SAUER on social media, including Facebook at facebook.com/sigsauerinc, Instagram at instagram.com/sigsauerinc, and YouTube at youtube.com/user/sigsauerinc.
SIG SAUER, Inc."
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/daniel-zimmerman/sig-sauer-p320-striker-fired-pistols-drop-safe/#comments
You can read some of the comments that follow.
Take Care
Bob
"Reports in recent days have called into question the safety of SIG SAUER’s popular P320pistol, the very same platform recently selected by the US Army. These rumors have spread through the internet and social media to the extent that the Dallas Police Department temporarily suspended their approval of officers who chose to carry P320’s on duty (the primary duty gun for the DPD is the SIG P226). As a result of what SIG considers unfounded and inaccurate information (#fakenews), they’ve just issued the following press release:"
"SIG SAUER® Reaffirms Safety of P320® Pistol Striker-fired pistol exceeds safety standards of ANSI/SAAMI® and U.S. military testing
Newington, NH (August 4, 2017) – In response to social media rumors questioning the safety of the P320 pistol, a variant of which was selected by the U.S. government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), SIG SAUER, Inc. has full confidence in the reliability, durability and safety of its striker-fired handgun platform. There have been zero (0) reported drop-related P320 incidents in the U.S. commercial market, with hundreds of thousands of guns delivered to date.The P320 meets and exceeds all U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) and Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI), as well as rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies.
All SIG SAUER pistols incorporate effective mechanical safeties to ensure they only fire when the trigger is pressed. However, like any mechanical device, exposure to acute conditions (e.g. shock, vibration, heavy or repeated drops) may have a negative effect on these safety mechanisms and cause them to not work as designed. This language is common to owner’s manuals of major handgun manufacturers.
As a result, individual attempts to perform drop tests outside of professionally controlled environments should not be attempted.
“SIG SAUER is committed to producing only the finest products,” said Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER. “Safety and reliability have been and always will be paramount to the SIG SAUER brand.”
For more information on SIG SAUER, please visit us at sigsauer.com
Follow SIG SAUER on social media, including Facebook at facebook.com/sigsauerinc, Instagram at instagram.com/sigsauerinc, and YouTube at youtube.com/user/sigsauerinc.
SIG SAUER, Inc."
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/08/daniel-zimmerman/sig-sauer-p320-striker-fired-pistols-drop-safe/#comments
You can read some of the comments that follow.
Take Care
Bob
The P320 passing safety standards isn't a secret to anyone. In edition to pointing it out in other threads, I've already mentioned it in this thread. You're letting your blind hate impact your reading comprehension.
All the Best
Jacob
Then this from SIG
SIG SAUER Issues Voluntary Upgrade of P320 Pistol
Published Date: 08/08/2017
P320 pistol meets requirements for industry and government safety standards; performance enhancements optimize function, safety, and reliability.
Newington, NH (August 8, 2017) – The P320 meets U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) / Sporting ArmsAmmunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI®), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), as well as rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies.
The design of the SIG SAUERP320 overcomes the most significant safety concern in striker-fired pistols today: the practice of pressing the trigger for disassembly. This can be performed with a round in the chamber which has resulted in numerous incidents of property damage, physical injury, and death. The disassembly process of the P320, however, uses a take-down lever rather than pressing the trigger, eliminating the possibility of discharge during the disassembly process.
Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.
As a result of input from law enforcement, government and military customers, SIG has developed a number of enhancements in function, reliability, and overall safety including drop performance. SIG SAUER is offering these enhancements to its customers. Details of this program will be available at sigsauer.com on Monday, August 14, 2017.
The M17 variant of the P320, selected by the U.S. government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), is not affected by the Voluntary Upgrade.
“SIG SAUER is committed to our approach on innovation, optimization, and performance, ensuring we produce the finest possible products,” said Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER. “Durability, reliability and safety, as well as end-user confidence in the SIG SAUER brand are the priorities for our team.”
For more information on SIG SAUER, please visit us at sigsauer.com
Contact:
Customer Service
603-610-3000, OPTION 1
Follow SIG SAUER on social media, including Facebook at facebook.com/sigsauerinc, Instagram at instagram.com/sigsauerinc, and YouTube at youtube.com/user/sigsauerinc.
SIG SAUER Issues Voluntary Upgrade of P320 Pistol
Published Date: 08/08/2017
P320 pistol meets requirements for industry and government safety standards; performance enhancements optimize function, safety, and reliability.
Newington, NH (August 8, 2017) – The P320 meets U.S. standards for safety, including the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) / Sporting ArmsAmmunition Manufacturers’ Institute, Inc. (SAAMI®), National Institute of Justice (NIJ), as well as rigorous testing protocols for global military and law enforcement agencies.
The design of the SIG SAUERP320 overcomes the most significant safety concern in striker-fired pistols today: the practice of pressing the trigger for disassembly. This can be performed with a round in the chamber which has resulted in numerous incidents of property damage, physical injury, and death. The disassembly process of the P320, however, uses a take-down lever rather than pressing the trigger, eliminating the possibility of discharge during the disassembly process.
Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.
As a result of input from law enforcement, government and military customers, SIG has developed a number of enhancements in function, reliability, and overall safety including drop performance. SIG SAUER is offering these enhancements to its customers. Details of this program will be available at sigsauer.com on Monday, August 14, 2017.
The M17 variant of the P320, selected by the U.S. government as the U.S. Army’s Modular Handgun System (MHS), is not affected by the Voluntary Upgrade.
“SIG SAUER is committed to our approach on innovation, optimization, and performance, ensuring we produce the finest possible products,” said Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER. “Durability, reliability and safety, as well as end-user confidence in the SIG SAUER brand are the priorities for our team.”
For more information on SIG SAUER, please visit us at sigsauer.com
Contact:
Customer Service
603-610-3000, OPTION 1
Follow SIG SAUER on social media, including Facebook at facebook.com/sigsauerinc, Instagram at instagram.com/sigsauerinc, and YouTube at youtube.com/user/sigsauerinc.
Probably not blind hate just trying to follow an issue that seems to have been resolved. Until I shot a PPQ M2 I was on my way to buy a 320. The 320 has a great trigger but the PPQ takes it to another level. Not sure why the Glock lovers are so interested in this story. Glock still sells it's share of pistols...just not to the US Army as the Army's major supplier.
Bob
The issue was well publicizes and at this time is unresolved. I'm not sure why you're pretending this information is newly available. You (posting press releases) seem way more interested in the story than anyone else in the thread, and you really don't seem to miss an opportunity to run down Glock. PPQ trigger is a little better than that of my 34, but the P320 isn't on the same planet as either of them. Hell, I'm yet to fire a P320 with a better trigger than a Glock comes with. The lone exception would be people who are irritated by the Glock trigger safety, turns out that part is important though.
Sam
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Actually none of that information is in that report.. The Sig was clearly a superior and better Gun.. Sorry, But its true..
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Rainy mosquito infested part of BC
Coke vs. Pepsi. Ford vs. Chevy. McDonald's vs. BK. Glock vs. SIG.
In the end, what does it matter? I highly doubt any one here will ever, EVER abuse their personal Glock, SIG, Walther, HK, FN etc. to the point that everything fails. Or drop their guns deliberately at odd angles just to prove a point ( other than DILLIGAF!). Every mechanical and biological device ( humans) will fail sometime. Sometimes it takes the perfect storm of conditions to cause a catastrophic malfunction. Follow the 4 rules of firearms safety. Nothing is idiot proof in this world.
I choose to shoot Glocks. Mainly because I've shot the same one for 30 years and I've not had any issues other than normal wear and tear components. I have not incurred extra body holes from using one. I will be just as happy if I had a 320, a P226, a 92FS, a PPQ, a CZ, FN or a HK in my holster.
For the Canadian civilian shooter, this is all minutiae. Buy whatever gun you like. Shoot with common sense and be safe.
In the end, what does it matter? I highly doubt any one here will ever, EVER abuse their personal Glock, SIG, Walther, HK, FN etc. to the point that everything fails. Or drop their guns deliberately at odd angles just to prove a point ( other than DILLIGAF!). Every mechanical and biological device ( humans) will fail sometime. Sometimes it takes the perfect storm of conditions to cause a catastrophic malfunction. Follow the 4 rules of firearms safety. Nothing is idiot proof in this world.
I choose to shoot Glocks. Mainly because I've shot the same one for 30 years and I've not had any issues other than normal wear and tear components. I have not incurred extra body holes from using one. I will be just as happy if I had a 320, a P226, a 92FS, a PPQ, a CZ, FN or a HK in my holster.
For the Canadian civilian shooter, this is all minutiae. Buy whatever gun you like. Shoot with common sense and be safe.
Sam, Sam Sam Glocks are great guns. Unfortunately, they have the ergonomics of block of wood and they point high due to their grip angle in most folks hands. Picking on Glock fans is a national past time, their reactions are so predicable.
The only 320 I have shot was a friends gun last July and the trigger was significantly better than any stock Glock I have ever pulled. Is your 34 stock out of the box or have you changed internals?
A PPQ is a little better than your G 34? Really, just a little better. I am sure you can elevate that to " a better trigger". If it were not for the ergos I would have gone with the 34 as it is one great gun and in the hands of some of the folks I have shot with it sings. But this is not what this thread is about.
Glocks are basic striker fired pistols. #1 gun used at the IDPA US Nationals for the past umteen years. If you like them fill your boots. It is a dated, but a well known design, in a very crowded market of quality striker fired pistols. where few stand out. The PPQ has a great trigger, probably the best of the lot, but my concern would be parts and service. Maybe it is a whole lot better than I presently think it is. This is the reason one is not in my safe yet.
My M&P PRO has better ergos then your 34 but I doubt it shoots any better, and is no more reliable but it works for me right now as does a SIG, CZ, Beretta and Tanfoglio. The latter four are all excellent platforms incidentally.
You are wrong about the issue being unresolved as it appears SIG will do an update on guns out there. The article does not say what the changes ae or how necessary they are.
Love Glocks just don't like to shoot them. Stock, they are blocky in the hand and with a Sh#tty mushy trigger and cheap plastic sights! Fortunately, you can spend your savings on aftermarket parts for the gun to improve the situation Enjoy.
Take Care
Bob
1873shootist
Regular
Exactly. The same old 1980s Glock design where the grip frame is the gun. Non-modular and obsolete technology.
Hilarious how Glock has a hissy fit when they don't win this competition, even though they didn't even bother to try by entering a modular handgun as requested.
Typical of the German mindset which demands global conquest and world domination.
The Glock fanatics will still be claiming that this dated old design is the perfect handgun 30 years from now, when in reality it has become the 1911A1 of the 21st century.
Time and technology marches on. The Glock luddites will have to as well.
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Umm... Read the report. It speaks for itself. Though I did cut paste the relevant bits in my subsequent post to make it easy for you.
I hate that I sound like glock's champion - I don't mind the Sig ifferings and own a couple p226's...
But...
The MHS glock gun has modular grip panels, is calibre interchangeable and ships with different uppers. It met the technical statement of requirements for the competition. Fact.
