want to get into black powder on a budget

Scnitzelmahn

Scnitzelmahn

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I would like to get into historical black powder shooting, the history and also the knowledge required to operate them has recently got my interest. Ideally i would like to build my own musket inspired by early trade muskets - from parts to save money and have my own unique gun. The Traditions Kentucky rifle kits caught my attention since they sell for $300 but are percussion. Cabela's has completed ones for $500 in flintlock which could be an option. What are some good websites to search for muskets? Is it possible to buy unfinished guns? I'm on a budget but don't mind doing stock work and fitting parts.

thanks!
 
The most well-known site to go to would be Track of the Wolf.
They have been around a long time and do offer Northwest trade Guns (muskets) as well as a large number of other muzzleloader kits.
In fact, they don't sell complete guns, except for some antiques and ones made by private makers.
They also are the #1 go-to place for muzzle-loading supplies and a whole bunch more.

Also, have a look at Dixie Gun Works, probably the oldest black powder guns and supplies dealer.

If you order a kit, you won't be able to import percussion lock kits without a PITA, but flintlock kits are no problem.

However, complete parts sets are not cheap, and will average out at around $750.00 USD or more, depending on stock wood and embellishment.
Also, all of these parts sets will require some amateur smithing operations, such as filing dovetail slots for sights, soldering on front sights for the muskets, and of course drilling the stock holes and finishing the inletting to some degree.

The Traditions Kentuckies will be okay, but use beech stocks and el-cheapo Spanish locks which are internally quite inferior.
I own a flint version and can attest to this.
But, the barrels are reputedly 1 in 66 twist and very accurate with round ball.
T of W does sell an upgraded percussion and flint lock that will drop into the inletted lock mortise, with a little fitting to clear the internal parts a bit. (L&R replacement lock for CVA or Tradition Kentucky) - (LOCK-LR-01-C) - ($132.00 USD)

T of W kits are not actually kits, they are parts sets, meaning that you can pick and choose what you want or don't want.
And, you can order all or just one or more parts from any parts set.
And, they sell barrels, locks, stocks, stock blanks, you name it.
 
Lonesome Donkey said:
...
If you order a kit, you won't be able to import percussion lock kits without a PITA, but flintlock kits are no problem.

....
Click to expand...

No problem importing percussion parts at all.

Otherwise, x2 on Track, they have a ton of great selection. I've got thousands "invested" in them (that word makes me feel better) - and they also sell the Lyman Great Plains kit, great rifle. Tough to find the kit up here anymore. Decades of service. The real pain there is the exchange rate these days (ouch!).

And check out Hillfolk Musket Supplies in Saskatchewan - now I haven't dealt with them personally but they are Canadian and understand they have some good stock, including kits. If I was shopping for a kit, I'd give 'em a call. Someone will be by to give you the # but it can be found on the Google I'm sure.
 
x2 for Becky Middleton at Hillfolk, Senlac, SK

Loyalist Arms - if you are looking for a historical musket. Be prepared to work on finishing and improving their products. Prices are at least modest, but much of what they sell is made in India I believe, though they are also offering Pedersoli these days. They are very clear that "you get what you pay for", meaning to me, that you cannot expect highest quality for lowest price.
 
Another vote for Hill folk to try first. Delt with Becky last fall looking for a Traditions Trapper pistol. I needed it in a pinch and she did the restricted transfer and shipped it C.O.D. without any hassle. They, (at the time), weren't set up for Visa. Not sure if they are now.
 
Black powder is a lot of fun but even with the best of guns can be tricky and comes with a steep learning curve. Personally for your first gun I would get something already put together because they can be very inexpensive used. Kits can be tricky and are sometimes comprised of factory seconds that the manufacturer didn't want to mess with while assembling their own guns. If you hit the ground running with a known good firearm your first experience will be a good one. BP is such a niche market some people let stuff go for cheap
 
Buy a used percussion gun. Shoot it for a couple of years. Then consider the flintlock. Flint takes much more work than percussion and for a new person, it will turn you off the BP guns really fast.

How do I know? 20 years shooting BP, 15 percussion, 2 flintlocks, 2 in-lines, not sure how many pistols. And yes they all get range time.

It is an addiction and I am certain they procreate when in the dark. I keep finding new guns that I don't remember buying.
 
You don't build from a kit because you're trying to save anything; you build because you like building. Same reason some of us like tearing down engines, or raising chickens, etc. I like the shop time as much as the shoot time, and shop time can be evenings and work around kids, volunteer stuff, chores, etc.

If you only want to shoot, yeah buy the complete unit. Otherwise, enjoy the build for what it is. I built my first frontstuffer from a kit in the early 90s and loved it, still shoot that rifle a lot. Use it every year at our club's open house for people to try out as well so it gets a lot of use. I'd never sell it, but if I did I doubt I'd recover the cost of the kit even before inflation - that just ain't the point.
 
NorthCoastBigBore said:
No problem importing percussion parts at all.

Otherwise, x2 on Track, they have a ton of great selection. I've got thousands "invested" in them (that word makes me feel better) - and they also sell the Lyman Great Plains kit, great rifle. Tough to find the kit up here anymore. Decades of service. The real pain there is the exchange rate these days (ouch!).

And check out Hillfolk Musket Supplies in Saskatchewan - now I haven't dealt with them personally but they are Canadian and understand they have some good stock, including kits. If I was shopping for a kit, I'd give 'em a call. Someone will be by to give you the # but it can be found on the Google I'm sure.
Click to expand...

Percussion parts, like locks, no problem, as you say.
From T of W, if you wanted to be careful, you could import an incomplete parts set for a percussion long gun in one order, then import the lock in a second order, along with the remaining small parts, and a few books or whatever to keep shipping manageable.
That way, your first incomplete parts set order would be gender-neutral, so to speak.

I don't know what would happen today if you attempted to order a complete percussion long gun kit.
Unlike flintlocks, percussion long guns, even kits, are still a firearm.

But, you have more experience with this than I do, it looks like.

And, T of W does not use the word kit. It just ships "parts" as I recall, no matter if it is a complete parts set.
Also, it described locks that I imported on the import documents as "machined castings" which is essentially quite true.
 
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Lonesome Donkey said:
Percussion parts, like locks, no problem, as you say.
From T of W, if you wanted to be careful, you could import an incomplete parts set for a percussion long gun in one order, then import the lock in a second order, along with the remaining small parts, and a few books or whatever to keep shipping manageable.
That way, your first incomplete parts set order would be gender-neutral, so to speak.

I don't know what would happen today if you attempted to order a complete percussion long gun kit.
Unlike flintlocks, percussion long guns, even kits, are still a firearm.

But, you have more experience with this than I do, it looks like.
Click to expand...

Importing the components including as a kit is a non-issue. As far as legalities on our end, to have a complete percussion long gun in Canada (unless it's legally defined as an "antique") you need your PAL. The unassembled kit is not a complete firearm, a bit of a grey area - but if you want a percussion rifle then you'll need a PAL anyway so....might as well just get the PAL or go flintlock...
 
To see what is needed to build from a kit of parts, get on to Youtube and watch how BP maven, Mike Beliveau [duellist1954] got on with his version of a Lancaster County long rifle. It was, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, pure torture mixed with some fun. It took him AGES.

tac
 
tacfoley said:
To see what is needed to build from a kit of parts, get on to Youtube and watch how BP maven, Mike Beliveau [duellist1954] got on with his version of a Lancaster County long rifle. It was, and I'm sure he won't mind me saying this, pure torture mixed with some fun. It took him AGES.

tac
Click to expand...

I'm almost 3 years on my "current build" for my oldest daughter...ready to test fire any day but it is "Unlikely" that the stock will fit her right anymore... I kind of figured that as I was building it though, like they say it's the journey not the destination :)
 
I would buy something assembled unless you are skilled and a patient person with wood and metal. I liked the older Lyman Great Plains rifles they were better built than the new one my friend just bought.
I have a New in the box Traditions Hawken 50 Cal rifle in the box that might be a good starter gun and just about everything you need to get started. Most are new accessories. Send me a PM if you want more info.
I am working on putting it on CGN this week.
I shoot a 50 Cal Pedersoli Tryon and some Parker Hale 577 rifled muskets.
I agree the flint can be a turn off for a beginner it didn't go well for me and I nearly dumped the BP guns when I started.
At the last gun show the guy next to me had a used Thompson Center Arms, Seneca, 50 Caliber Hawken. He had it when we left.
 
I`ve been at it about a year and a bit. got my first and second one on the same day. .50 Investarms used with a bore choked full of rust. percussion. shoots like a charm now. and a new .32 CVA squirrel .
for my first flint gun i bought a pile of unfinished parts and a stock blank from another CGNer august of 2015 and was shooting it by deer season.
steep learning curve to be sure.
you`ll love it
in my circle I'm the weird guy with the smoky BP guns that everyone wants to fire.
i want a musket too
 
thanks for the input! I will keep an eye on the used section for deals but otherwise think the traditions kentucky flintlock might be a good musket to start on especially with the price. is it possible to find them in kit form and get them in country? in the US it seems the kits are almost half the price of the complete rifles.
 
You wont regret the flintlock (unless your lefty)..... the percussions in my experience are definitely more practical, but are also BORING. The flintlock will always leave a grin on your face after the smoke clears, and you stop coughing lol
 
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