wanting to hear from hunters that have shot elk and moose with a 243 win

[KodiakHntr]

I agree. Maybe not for the same reasons as you? I considered that maybe more penetration would've given me a better blood trail. I don't believe that I did have complete penetration.

Definitely not for the same reasons.

Bullets matter. Cartridge not so much. Blaming a cartridge for a lost animal while not even being sure of the bullet you used and not knowing the bullet placement says more about your bias than it does about the effectiveness of the cartridge.

 

[tactical lever]

Definitely not for the same reasons.

Bullets matter. Cartridge not so much. Blaming a cartridge for a lost animal while not even being sure of the bullet you used and not knowing the bullet placement says more about your bias than it does about the effectiveness of the cartridge.

I said I used Federal 100 gr. That is no mystery, and not sure how you came to that conclusion. Regular, middling cup and core bullet.

Again, you're attempting to put words in my mouth. I know where I shot; the rifle is quite accurate and I was shooting well with it. I briefly considered a head or neck shot as I was knocking heads off grouse all fall with it, but I shot behind the shoulder as I said, 2/3 up. I said it might have been better if I had shot a little lower and taken out the heart or ripped off the aortic arch.

Bullets do matter, but simply using another big game bullet that retains 10 or 15% more weight isn't the transformative difference you think it is.

I wasn't biased enough to not take it out, but I can recognize a mistake.

You can't tell me that if I shot it the same with a .338 WM and regular cup and core bullets there'd be no difference.

The elk died, I'm quite sure, but the big difference is it took off over beaten down tracks, and there wasn't enough blood let out to follow.

 

[KodiakHntr]

Lots of guys get excited shooting big game. Lots of guys out there swear to the moon and back that they "shot it perfectly" right up until the animal is recovered and the bullet isn't where they thought. Lots of guys don't see that an animal isn't as broadside as they thought in the moment. Lot of things can happen when people are shooting at animals that result in bullets not going where they are intended.

You didn't recover it, so really don't know where the bullet went or what happened that you didn't get the result you anticipated.

 

[tactical lever]

Lots of guys get excited shooting big game. Lots of guys out there swear to the moon and back that they "shot it perfectly" right up until the animal is recovered and the bullet isn't where they thought. Lots of guys don't see that an animal isn't as broadside as they thought in the moment. Lot of things can happen when people are shooting at animals that result in bullets not going where they are intended.

You didn't recover it, so really don't know where the bullet went or what happened that you didn't get the result you anticipated.

Well that's true from your perspective. We don't know each other, and lots of fellas BS, or don't really know, so I can't blame you for looking at it that way.

I can just say on my end, that it wasn't a long shot, and though I was excited (he was a great big bull afterall), I was steady. Found what I know was lung blood, but that's just more second hand information.

I'm somewhat biased towards heavy bullets, but I acquired a .243 and was kind of anxious to make a kill with it. I was more expecting to shoot a deer, or I probably would've had a bigger rifle in hand.

I realize a lot of game is hit poorly, and lost even with a big rifle. Elk is a tough animal, and some guys have success with light guns/small bullets, but that really became my Elmer Keith moment. I determined that I was going to get a big exit next time, so something more like a 286 gr. at 2450 or probably stepped down to 2400 became the standard.

The thing that really ticked me off about it was losing a blood trail in snow. Too many tracks and some through brush to really tell where it went.

Even looked for birds the next couple days, but didn't see anything. Another group did find a head with a big rack on it out there somewhere, and I always wonder whether it was him.

 

[ovenpilot]

not interested in hearing about shot placement and how to stock animals
looking to hear from people that use this calibre for these animals
if you reload your go to bullet

I use it. I load 95 grain Nosler partition over IMR 4891 powder. Dropped a nice moose in his track last year at about 260 yards.

 

[wannabe]

many elephants were killed by 7x57 fmj and 303 fmj back in the day.....many more were wounded and wandered away to die in agony....

 

[simonsez]

im so far from a moose its not funny but my thinking of the .243 stemmed way back with the big sambar deer being notorious for 338s an such...

yet i kilt heaps of em with a little 270 winchester an 130gr SP with the 24 or often 26 inch barrel -(now a 708) - i began to wonder about such an ultralight rifle (like a kimber/howa UL) an packing it around mountains all day- daily- an that i was sure a 100gr SP but better yet a premium Bonded number, would be all that would be needed for the biggest of Sambar deeer-- this all fell back onto placing that projectile where it needed to be......... nothing more , nothing less.

You are not that far from a moose. A few of them are supposed to live in a national park in New-Zeland and hunting is open.

 

[DGY]

You are not that far from a moose. A few of them are supposed to live in a national park in New-Zeland and hunting is open.

A few were move there from Canada in the 60’s and again in the 70’s I think none of them survived as most scientist says, some people swear there is still one or maybe two moose alive and there are people looking for them, just like there are people looking for the Bigfoot. It would be fun to find out if they actually did survive and reproduce.

 

[struff55]

Lots of guys get excited shooting big game. Lots of guys out there swear to the moon and back that they "shot it perfectly" right up until the animal is recovered and the bullet isn't where they thought. Lots of guys don't see that an animal isn't as broadside as they thought in the moment. Lot of things can happen when people are shooting at animals that result in bullets not going where they are intended.

You didn't recover it, so really don't know where the bullet went or what happened that you didn't get the result you anticipated.

bad shots are not fixed by using a larger calibre

 

[wannabe]

minimum caliber laws are created when hunters use calibers too small for intended species......elk are pretty tough animals....then again I hunt in the real bush where an animal can venture off out of sight in a few steps....often you can't see the entire animal. In bald farm fields where you can watch your dog run away for 2 days I guess its a different ball game...if a lower recoil rifle is required I think a 6.5 swede is head and shoulders ahead of the 243, 7x57/7mm08 better yet...also I hunt in grizzly country where people die in bear attacks....that is also a consideration in my preferred 308/30-06 minimum world

 

[wannabe]

I knew a "great white hunter type" guy years ago who swore he could kill anything with his trusty 6mm/284 wilcat.....then he says "you loose a few but thats life" ah yeah, no....not for me....

 

[struff55]

minimum caliber laws are created when hunters use calibers too small for intended species......elk are pretty tough animals....then again I hunt in the real bush where an animal can venture off out of sight in a few steps....often you can't see the entire animal. In bald farm fields where you can watch your dog run away for 2 days I guess its a different ball game...if a lower recoil rifle is required I think a 6.5 swede is head and shoulders ahead of the 243, 7x57/7mm08 better yet...also I hunt in grizzly country where people die in bear attacks....that is also a consideration in my preferred 308/30-06 minimum world

a 243 or a 308 or a 6.5x55 or any standard cal bullet in the lung heart liver spine or any other vital spot results in a dead animal regardless of bullet size not sure why guys think a 300 win is better than a 243 if the vitals are not hit the cal makes know difference
if you think you have to mash a shoulder bone on a elk or a moose a larger bullet will be someone better
a 95 gr accubond will go thru the shoulder as well ac95 sst or some other poorly constructed bullet will not

 

[DGY]

a 243 or a 308 or a 6.5x55 or any standard cal bullet in the lung heart liver spine or any other vital spot results in a dead animal regardless of bullet size not sure why guys think a 300 win is better than a 243 if the vitals are not hit the cal makes know difference
if you think you have to mash a shoulder bone on a elk or a moose a larger bullet will be someone better
a 95 gr accubond will go thru the shoulder as well ac95 sst or some other poorly constructed bullet will not

I agree and disagree, I know lots of people using light chambering for moose and they do kill them, but energy and bullet diameter makes a difference for sure, I shot my share of moose and caribou, and I can tell you that yes a small light fast bullet placed at the right spot will kill them but it won’t kill them faster than a larger heavier bullet will cause if it did people would hunt DG with all sort of things! That said I don’t think one need a magnum to kill big games but I shot ot saw some one shoot moose with 270, 30-06, 8x57, 9.3x62 all using quality bullets and all inside 150m and all bullets in the lungs heart area and the 9.3 is the one that put them down the fastest period. The 270 the slowest but they all died and none walked more than a few meters. I had two moose go down in there tracks one with the 30-06 and one with the 9.3 all the others took a few steps sometimes a dozen steps, so people that shoot game and they always say the didn’t move one step, shooting them in the lungs I have a hard time believing them, spine/neck or head shot sure but a 243 at over 100m shot in the lungs of a moose that moose ain’t hitting the ground instantly! And plus if the shot is not perfect and you hit bones I rather have a heavier larger bullet for sure, and not all hits are perfect.
I know I’m wrong and I should hunt moose with my 257roberts but it won’t happen.

 

[struff55]

I agree and disagree, I know lots of people using light chambering for moose and they do kill them, but energy and bullet diameter makes a difference for sure, I shot my share of moose and caribou, and I can tell you that yes a small light fast bullet placed at the right spot will kill them but it won’t kill them faster than a larger heavier bullet will cause if it did people would hunt DG with all sort of things! That said I don’t think one need a magnum to kill big games but I shot ot saw some one shoot moose with 270, 30-06, 8x57, 9.3x62 all using quality bullets and all inside 150m and all bullets in the lungs heart area and the 9.3 is the one that put them down the fastest period. The 270 the slowest but they all died and none walked more than a few meters. I had two moose go down in there tracks one with the 30-06 and one with the 9.3 all the others took a few steps sometimes a dozen steps, so people that shoot game and they always say the didn’t move one step, shooting them in the lungs I have a hard time believing them, spine/neck or head shot sure but a 243 at over 100m shot in the lungs of a moose that moose ain’t hitting the ground instantly! And plus if the shot is not perfect and you hit bones I rather have a heavier larger bullet for sure, and not all hits are perfect.
I know I’m wrong and I should hunt moose with my 257roberts but it won’t happen.

i'm 70 years old and have shot 29 moose in my life all hand loads 243 257 bob 270 win 30-06 300 h&h 7 mm 08 7x57 308 win 50 yds to 350 yds never lost a moose mostly one shot kills yup some fall down fast some stand and wobble some walk 10 yds lungs heart spine they are all dead on there feet
i have seen idiots take head shots and shoot the nose off of the moose and neck shots lots of skin not much vital aeria those resulted in hours of chasing
dead is dead how hast does not matter
i have shot many moose from straight on and when you put any bullet into the middle of the lungs they go down and don't even twitch

 

[warzaw]

Hey Struff you sure lite the fuse with that thread !

 

[DGY]

i'm 70 years old and have shot 29 moose in my life all hand loads 243 257 bob 270 win 30-06 300 h&h 7 mm 08 7x57 308 win 50 yds to 350 yds never lost a moose mostly one shot kills yup some fall down fast some stand and wobble some walk 10 yds lungs heart spine they are all dead on there feet
i have seen idiots take head shots and shoot the nose off of the moose and neck shots lots of skin not much vital aeria those resulted in hours of chasing
dead is dead how hast does not matter
i have shot many moose from straight on and when you put any bullet into the middle of the lungs they go down and don't even twitch

Like I said I don’t disagree with you or at least not all of it! Since you already used/use 243 for moose why are you asking the question in the first place? Look like you already know that it works and what bullets works and what loads work…. Why asking and then arguing with people? Genuinely interested.

 

[1899]

I am very skeptical of those who have always killed everything they every shot at, all one shot kills and all DRT. Sometimes funny things happen and you don't know or can't explain why. Is it possible to have bullet failure? Absolutely. Animals can respond differently to seemingly the same hit - was it breathing in when the bullet hit the lungs, lungs full/empty? One game warden I know in Europe, who has witnessed thousands of roe deer and red stag shot even figured that the blood pressure difference from the heartbeat at the moment of bullet impact might make a difference. I don't know, but there must be a reason why some animals collapse from a double lung shot while others run off.

I shot a sitka deer once from about 75 yards if memory serves me well. I was using a .270 with 130gr Ballistic Tips. My friend was watching in his binoculars. The 2 deer were on a little hump and right beside some very thick foliage. I shot and the deer just walked into the bush. No reaction, nothing. He said "I think you missed". There was no way I missed, rock solid, steady aim, not even a whisper of buck fever. No way I missed.

Well we (my friend, wife and me) looked and looked and could not find blood, hair or dead deer. Meanwhile, my dog had run off somewhere and wouldn't come back. She finally came back to my call and stood off - tongue hanging out and would not heel. My friend went to grab her collar and happened to notice the tiniest drop of blood. My dog turned back to the bush and we followed. We went about 75 yards through thick crap and the dog led us right to the dead deer, which was under a deadfall.

Perfect behind the shoulder shot, with exit that was much smaller than expected. Why was there virtually no blood, how could it go that far before dying and why was there no reaction to the shot? I had shot several before on that trip with the same rifle - as had my wife (her first deer ever) and most of the shots were bang-flops or a big jump and a step or two. Can't explain what happened on that odd one though. We never would have found it without the dog. The only thing I can thing of is that the bullet didn't expand properly - that just going from the look of the wound as I obviously didn't find the bullet.

So stuff happens - it isn't always black and white.

 

[struff55]

minimum caliber laws are created when hunters use calibers too small for intended species......elk are pretty tough animals....then again I hunt in the real bush where an animal can venture off out of sight in a few steps....often you can't see the entire animal. In bald farm fields where you can watch your dog run away for 2 days I guess its a different ball game...if a lower recoil rifle is required I think a 6.5 swede is head and shoulders ahead of the 243, 7x57/7mm08 better yet...also I hunt in grizzly country where people die in bear attacks....that is also a consideration in my preferred 308/30-06 minimum world

the minimal cal laws are not animal specific so that really doesn't apply you could hunt deer to bears with a 223 if you wanted

 

[DGY]

I am very skeptical of those who have always killed everything they every shot at, all one shot kills and all DRT. Sometimes funny things happen and you don't know or can't explain why. Is it possible to have bullet failure? Absolutely. Animals can respond differently to seemingly the same hit - was it breathing in when the bullet hit the lungs, lungs full/empty? One game warden I know in Europe, who has witnessed thousands of roe deer and red stag shot even figured that the blood pressure difference from the heartbeat at the moment of bullet impact might make a difference. I don't know, but there must be a reason why some animals collapse from a double lung shot while others run off.

I shot a sitka deer once from about 75 yards if memory serves me well. I was using a .270 with 130gr Ballistic Tips. My friend was watching in his binoculars. The 2 deer were on a little hump and right beside some very thick foliage. I shot and the deer just walked into the bush. No reaction, nothing. He said "I think you missed". There was no way I missed, rock solid, steady aim, not even a whisper of buck fever. No way I missed.

Well we (my friend, wife and me) looked and looked and could not find blood, hair or dead deer. Meanwhile, my dog had run off somewhere and wouldn't come back. She finally came back to my call and stood off - tongue hanging out and would not heel. My friend went to grab her collar and happened to notice the tiniest drop of blood. My dog turned back to the bush and we followed. We went about 75 yards through thick crap and the dog led us right to the dead deer, which was under a deadfall.

Perfect behind the shoulder shot, with exit that was much smaller than expected. Why was there virtually no blood, how could it go that far before dying and why was there no reaction to the shot? I had shot several before on that trip with the same rifle - as had my wife (her first deer ever) and most of the shots were bang-flops or a big jump and a step or two. Can't explain what happened on that odd one though. We never would have found it without the dog. The only thing I can thing of is that the bullet didn't expand properly - that just going from the look of the wound as I obviously didn't find the bullet.

So stuff happens - it isn't always black and white.

I agree! I have one moose that I shot took five rounds of 180 TTSX bullets all placed properly for him to go down and he didn’t go down where the first shot was fired either!!

 

[1899]

Straying a bit from the initial question, but an interesting and relevant is the attached article - "Bullet Wounds on Game: How Survivable Are They?". The reader's digest version: shot placement is important, but so is bullet performance. Not profound, I know, and it has been mentioned here, but a good read anyways.

My thought - .243 plus good bullets in the right spot works.