Wanting to learn how to run a lathe...Books? Update PICs

I was going to recommend this lathe, but since you already bought one:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G
The Grizzly's are fairly popular.
I thought I would use it to build hand made flash lights.
Got the idea from Candlepower forums.
You can build some fantastic parts with a lathe. For sure.
Just don't build any landing gear just yet, you never know what can happen...

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.....Buck, I have seen a Y tube clip with Gordy Gritters chambering a bbl, taken from the Grizzly vidio and it looked real good and made sense to me. I was thinking of ordering it.

There's a secondary message in at least one of the videos where he spends the whole 3'ish minutes explaining how he sets up the lathe and barrel to zero the bore. What's not shown is the other 10 minutes of prep such as the jaw pads and setting up the 4 jaw and the rear spindle adjustment doohickey.

Many a time I've spent easily 10 times more to get a part running true or to make up some little jig gismo that will allow me to hold a part properly and without distortion as well as in alignment only to do the cut in a few seconds. That's the nature of the game. The knowledge and experience to know best how to hold the workpiece and how to organize the cutting operations is easily 10 times more important than just how to turn the wheels on the machine. That sub message is just as important as how to center the barrel for the cuts to be made.

Oh, and if you're looking for some projects to use for learning. The stuff Glo7 linked to is good but also there's a heap of jigs and useful gizmos that you can make that can then be used on your lathe later on to make the next job easier. Things like your own boring bars and boring bar holder. Knurled knobs for some of the screws that will show up later. And while I don't recomend it as a first shot learning experience even your own morse or R8 taper arbors for holding things like adjustable boring heads and slitting saws. Something like a holder to hold a dial guage in the toolpost is a nice start. It makes it easy to mount the dial guage in place of a cutting tool for quick 4 jaw zeroing.
 
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Ya, I put the 4 jaw chuck on to start learning how to dial stuff in . I managed to get a 6" piece of trued up pipe to less than .001" of total run out. Getting the inside of a rifle bbl zeroed in to .0002" between the chuck and spider is a completely different matter all together. I expect it to take me the better part of an afternoon the first time! But that's what draws me to this, the patience and precision. You need both... and at the same time too.

I like that tools post-indicator holder idea. My cheapo china magnetic base is crappy with a capital K, and the little one that that holds my .0005 dial indicator won't move the right way for some things.
 
Here's some pictures for inspiration. The products are not always pretty but they do the job and have become valuable pieces in my lathe accessories.

If you don't have a drill press yet then I suggest you get a decent sized one soon. The lathe will be severley hamstrung without at least a drill press, grinder set up for grinding the toolbits and some sort of power metal cutting bandsaw for sawing stock up. The milling machine is optional for now but I'm guessing it is on your short list, right? But get the drill press, grinder and bandsaw first.

First item is the bed wipers to replace the useless rubber things that they put on. I used some scrap black anodized aluminum sheet for the compression caps to hold the felt down. That's why the colors in the picture look odd. The felt you see there is roughly 3/16 thick and came from a set of boot liners I got from the local work wear outlet years ago. Note that the caps should NOT scrape against the bed. That's what the felt is for. Cut the felt slightly undersize on the openings and the caps slightly oversize (file to final fit) so there's roughly 1/64 to 1/32 clearance to the bed. When tightening the screws just push the felt inwards so it has a tight rubbing fit to the bed. In use the oil and other stuff will make the felt go grey like mine has done. No biggie and I have yet to replace them. You'll also see from the tail stock picture that I did wipers on that as well.

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When cleaning and oiling the bed there's a trick. Apply oil through the caps as per normal. Then oil the clean bed in front of the wipers. Run the carraige into the oil a couple of inches, pause a second or so, then run it back a bit. The oil will loosen and hold any bits of metal that are on the leading edge of the wiper. Repeat a few times until no more crud comes off.
 
Some ideas for lathe accessories for you or anyone else. These items are incredably useful and are a great way to learn some of the techniques needed for later and how to plan your work steps so you can get from A to B without painting yourself into a corner. For example the pinch screw holes on the borring bar holder shown below were drilled first at the tapping size, then depth stop drilled for screw body clearance and cap head clearance then tapped for the threads BEFORE slitting the block using my power bandsaw. This particular series ensured that the metal would not flex from the pressure of the drilling and result in misaligned holes. Although I did the slots in the knurling holder with my milling machine they COULD be done in the lathe since the slots are actually centered on the headstock axis to hold the knurls centered.

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The tail stock die holder is a particularly handy item. It isn't quite as good as machine cut threads for being 100% concentric but it's a darn sight better than removing the item and starting the die by hand. The stub that is in the drill chuck is a length of annealed 1/2 inch drill rod. the extension behind the die holding head is drilled and reamed to 1/2 inch so it's a nice accurate fit on the drill rod.

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I didn't do a matching tap holder since what I do is just hold the tap in the drill chuck and turn the headstock chuck by hand for a couple of turns. By that time the tap is well on it's way and it's safe to continue by hand.

Another handy item is this ruler holder for the tail stock. It's made from aluminium other than for the clamping screw which is steel. Super magnets are used in the flange and the indicator finger. The one in the flange sticks to the ruler well enough ( it's stainless) that it moves reliably and the magnet in the indicator lets me slide it along the corner of the tail stock body to set to an inch mark once the drill bit is just touching the workpiece. Makes it easier to keep track of hole depth. And BEST of all you always know where your 6 inch scale is for when you want to make a quick measurement!

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The dial guage attachment lets me use the dial guage in the tool post by just replacing a tool bit. It may or may not be obvious but the center of the guage pin is even in height with the top surface of the fake tool bit that fits in the tool post. That puts the anvil on center or near enough to it. The "bitsa" method I used isn't pretty but the post and plate came from a previous item so I reused them. Feel free to improvise...

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And no lathe is complete without a boring bar setup. For the small stuff I use two of the carbide sets with 3/8 and 1/2 inch round shanks in a holder. For the big stuff I use this post and bars. The small one shown in the holder is 5/8 diameter by around 7 inches long (the rest is on the other side sticking out) and the big hole is for the 1 inch diameter "Big Bartha"... :D All the holes in this were drilled using my medium size drill press by doing the drilling in stages so as to avoid requiring heavy pressure that would have flexed the drill press column and table out of square.

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Finally a little flat vise I made about 10 years ago. It's proven to be very useful for drilling holes in small flat plates or pieces that could not be held in a normal vise due to being so thin that they would crumple. It's shown here with a 1/4 inch washer that is about to be drilled out to a slightly larger size. New holes for new drill sizes are drilled in the vise at need.

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Hopefully this should keep a few of you out of mischeif for a few evenings.... :cheers:
 
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I shoudl mention that credit for the flat vise concept belongs to Guy Lautard. I saw his version in one of his Machinist's Bedside Reader volumes. WHICH as it turns out I also heartily recomend for anyone that does metal working as a hobby. The books are a blend of amusing anecdotes and thought provoking how to's. Money well spent.

http://www.lautard.com/
 
Nice pictures and tips right there!! Thankyou! I need to get on some of those things, and get a decent drill press. The table top one I got won't do, to much run out on the spindle shaft, it's bent like a banana.

I want to add scrappers to my tail stock too, it has none, If you run it down a dirty bed you can actually feel the chips getting under there.
 
Exactly why I put the ones on my own tailstock. It didn't come with anything originally.

There no oil spots on the tail stock either. So what I do is after wiping the bed clean in front of the tail stock I dribble oil on the bed ways and then lift the front of the tail stock slightly and drag the raised stock over the oil dribbles and then just let it down. You'll soon be able to tell the difference of a stock that's running on an oil film and one that is getting too dry by the decrease in smoothness.

I've been happy with a table top drill press. The one I've got is similar in size to this one....

http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=CT019N

But if you don't mind the slight extra cost and need for floor space then a floor mount would be a great choice. I know there's been a few cases where I found myself wishing for more vertical room to end drill something.
 
If I am indicating a barrel in the 4-jaw and spider, I use pin gauges from w ww.meyergage.com, slipped into the bore. I will indicate the bore at the 4-jaw, go back to the spider, indicate the barrel there, return to the 4-jaw, re-indicate. The spider is one I made from a cylinder of bearing bronze, bored to a nice fit on the spindle, secured with setscrews. Four Allen head screws tipped with brass pads to hold the barrel.
I prefer to set the barrel up through the spindle for chambering, rather than use the steady, if at all possible. With a bit of practice, it doesn't take all that long to indicate a barrel in.
The time taken to make tools, jigs and fixtures is well spent.
 
Here is my first gunsmithing type project. Cutting a bbl and re crowning. Feel free to laugh at my methods.


This is a rifle I have had for a few years. I bought it used (cheap) it had been re barreled to 338 win by the last guy that had it. I am sure the BBl was a cheap one like and Adams and Bennett or something. It has never shot well, 3" five shot groups at 100 yards are normal. Despite that I have taken bear, moose, elk and deer with it and they all thought it was accurate enough. The muzzle is showing signs of being washed out and the majority of the powder residue on the crown is on one side. The bbl is 24" I cut it to 23"



The spindle side, with the action sticking out, I didn't take the bbl off. I actually had to cut my catthead down to be able to work on a 23" bbl. I will probably cut the spindle itself down an inch and may drill and tap it directly.
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The jaw side. I put a piece of copper wire around the BBl so it could pivot side to side and up and down when adjusting the cathead side.
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Indicating the outside of the bbl to center it for the cut.
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One practice swipe then cut it off.
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Indicating the inside of the bbl in the groves. I ran the indicator in as far as it would go adjusted the jaws then back out and adjusted the left side until the bbl was straight. I had made a rod that fit the old muzzle perfectly before I started, as it turned out the muzzel end was washed out bad enough the rod would not fit the new muzzle. I think that would have been the best way to indicate and dial the bbl in but what I did worked ok too. I had it dialed in to 0.0003" close enough for me.
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I then cut a 45* crown and finished it like an NEF bbl that I have. Why did I do it like that? I don't know, why not.
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Some other stuff I have done to the lathe.

The 3 jaw chuck was always out by about .002" and the body was out the same amount. I found out that was about all you could expect for a 3 jaw. I pulled the chuck off the back plate trued the edge so it would be balanced better and then took about .002 off the nose of the back plate. This allows me to loosen the back plate bolts, tap the chuck body to get the desired run out then tighten the bolts down. There is the big possibility that the chuck could shift on the back plate now but it hasn't happened yet. If I want to take heavy cuts I will use the 4 jaw. I can easily tap the chuck to within .0005" total run out. Once set it is fairly repeatable. Not bad for a $40 chuck that came with the machine.


The 4 jaw was horribly out of balance and the back plate showed .009" of run out and the body .004". I trued the edge of the back plate as well as the face which was out quite a bit too. The nose of the back plate wasn't even round so I took a light cut off it. The chuck still fits on it nice and is balanced much better now.
 
You've definetly learned one of the more important lessons. And that is "Never assume that anything is right until you check it yourself". Otherwise you're learning incredably quickly and you're very much well on your way.

Very nice job on the barrel. But why cut it down that far? Or was it to remove the erroded mouth that you seem to have found? I sort of got the impression you found this by accident.
 
But why cut it down that far? Or was it to remove the erroded mouth that you seem to have found? I sort of got the impression you found this by accident.


I actually intended to cut this down to 22" as that is my favorite length for a hunting rifle. I will try 23" for now, if it still feels unweildly in the bush I will cut it down again after I find a good way to do shorter bbls.

While trying to work out the accuracy problems with this rifle a few years ago I noticed that the muzzle was washed out a bit. I had suspected it was due to the intense copper fouling. This is was the roughest bbl I have ever seen. I lapped it smooth, knowing I had nothing to loose as it was a throw away bbl. Of course lapping it's self will wash out the muzzle if you push the lapping plug right out of the bbl, which I tried not to do. The gun shot better for longer between cleanings so I considered it a minor victory.

If it shoots better now great! If not I will keep hunting with it until I re barrel it, which is what I was going to do anyways.
 
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Go to ' Lindsay books" on the net they have some books that are copys of manuals from lathes of days gone by, There is ALL the info you need to give you a good heads up on lathe use , mill use and of all things the shaper which is pretty well obsilete now but still an invaluable tool in the gunsmiths shop IF you can find one
 
Soft Jaws !!

Looks like you are haveing fun , if you are concerened with the runnout of your chuck , the easiest way to remedy that instead of machining any of the mounting parts would be to buy yourself a set of soft jaws for your 3 jaw , then you just have to cut some alum blocks, bolt them to the soft jaws and bore them out to suit , that way you will be boreing true to your spindle and will allways have a true bore , you can also turn the jaws to suit any type of part you need to hold on the i/d or o/d and the alum will not damage any hardened steel parts. If you follow this link it will take you to a video of some soft jaws being used , in this video the jaws are machined to suit a thin ring , you could bore them out to suit a rifle barrel , they are useing a three jaw air chuck in the video, we use them on our standard three jaw chucks on a regular basis they are real handy and not that expensive , i have bought them for as little as $20.00 a set on e-bay and craigslist
http://www.jato-precision.com/EN/chuck-footage.htm
 
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