There's always a risk with surplus ammo. If you buy stuff at the local shop and it's no good, you can take it back. Milspec, especially foreign, especially bought from a stranger, always presents a risk. You don't know if it was just a production overrun (meaning fully OK) or something that was rejected for QC reasons. Yep, most guys go for years without a problem - but all it takes is one.
Warning! Do not use TZ 80 Israeli 7.62x51 surplus
- Thread starter Xman
- Start date
I have a few left but I wouldn't try to sell it to anyone. I don't want anyone's life, limb or firearm on my conscince...
I had heard that they used TNT in the booby trapped ammo. Here is what wikipedia says:
The CIA and Green Berets countered by booby-trapping the enemy's ammunition supplies. The gunpowder in a rifle or machine-gun cartridge was replaced with high explosive. Upon being fired, the sabotaged round would destroy the gun and kill or injure the shooter. Mortar shells were similarly rigged to explode when dropped down the tube, instead of launching properly. This ammunition was then carefully re-packed to eliminate any evidence of tampering, and planted in enemy munitions dumps by covert insertion teams. False rumours and forged documents were circulated to make it appear that the Communist Chinese were supplying the NLF with defective weapons and ammunition.
The CIA and Green Berets countered by booby-trapping the enemy's ammunition supplies. The gunpowder in a rifle or machine-gun cartridge was replaced with high explosive. Upon being fired, the sabotaged round would destroy the gun and kill or injure the shooter. Mortar shells were similarly rigged to explode when dropped down the tube, instead of launching properly. This ammunition was then carefully re-packed to eliminate any evidence of tampering, and planted in enemy munitions dumps by covert insertion teams. False rumours and forged documents were circulated to make it appear that the Communist Chinese were supplying the NLF with defective weapons and ammunition.
Has anyone pulled bullets and examined the powder for signs of deterioration of this ammunition? ...or measured the brass for proper specifications; case length, head spacing, volume? Military brass is thicker so has less volume. Are the bullets diameter to specification? Cartridge OAL proper for the firearms used?
This is from the second link, on the second page:
http://m14tfl.com/upload/showthread.php?t=76940&highlight=TZ80&page=2
I pulled a few random Israeli IWI TZ80 lot 12-80 7.62 ball cartridges from a sealed 500 rnd container and weighed the powder and projectiles on a Dillon D-Terminator digital scale. The the FMJBT projectiles consistently weigh 147.0 gr and the ball powder 43.0 gn. The cases look thick, nicely crimped and sealed at both primer and neck mouth. The ammo shoots consistent and judging by the consistent weights of both projectiles and powder this is quality ammo. This is the ammo Milarm imported and was selling in sealed 500 rnd containers 10 years ago. I can not vouch for any other imported lots of this ammo though, so as usual - buyer beware.
Donny Fenn1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootenays
i have some TZ80 bought from P&D iirc
never had an issue
heck i'd buy more (hint,hint)
never had an issue
heck i'd buy more (hint,hint)
Well I feel like a ####. I went to the Calgary gun show today and scored 7 cardboard boxes marked 7.62 ball . Lot 11 - 80 . when I got home the stamp said T Z 80. The brass looks a little tarnished but after reading some stuff online today trying to figure out what the surplus ammo was I think ill call the guy who sold it to me at the show and get my $ back 
At 60 cents a round I couldnt pass it up
At 60 cents a round I couldnt pass it up
Interesting. Found several thousand rounds last spring at an estate sale, averaged less than .03 per round. I've had a few case failures (burning through just above the case head), but had the same thing happen with 1960's issure LC cases as well. The bulk of the ammo shoots very well less than 1.5" @ 100, cycles and ejects well with most of it appearing in like new condition. Although it can be reloaded there is no way I could ever get a case into the sizing die regardless the amount of lube on the case, seem to be way over spec. I chalked that up to mil-spec thick cases and an aggressive ejecting system on the M305. When doing a search on this ammo last year I found no problems reported, but I may have to put aside this ammo for the time being.
