Warranty Round Two

FLHTCUI said:
BUM , did you get many rides in this past summer on the Hog?
Tight Groups,
Rob
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Didn't do a ton of riding being away 5 weeks through July and August but I got a few good ones in. I even squeezed in a ride yesterday. 18 degrees and it was about time for the stabilized gas and the cover but once I got it warmed up I figured I should make hay while the sun shone.
 
ivo said:
This is not an attack on Peter but if you sell brand "x", you should support that brand. If the scope is a grey market scope, offer to help the individual get they proper paperwork in order(the manufacturer can help here)and get it fixed so he doesn't have a $2500 paperweight.
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Why should he support people that didn't pay him to import it legally? That's the whole point of importers and distributors, they are there to help you if something goes bad. If you wanted to save money and bypass these people, you should pay the consequences.

Im glad I learned this the hard way with a cheap Nikon scope, after that incident,I buy my scopes New and In Canada. As for buying expensive used optics, I ask for a Photocopy of the sales receipt for warranty purposes. If the seller doesn't want to provide one,I don't buy it. All the scopes I have sold on EE included the sales receipt.
 
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I agree with that to some extent... But there's kind of a grey area there. Some people have absolutely no idea about ITAR. I was one of those people until about ten months ago. I was given a leupold VX-3 CDS for Christmas by a family member. He didn't have any idea about ITAR. He just walked into an American cabela's, and bought the scope. I called korth to order a custom dial... He ran the serial number, confirmed it was not sold in canada, told me the custom dial would not be free as advertised... No problem...I paid for it, and still had no idea about ITAR. I only heard of it when I happened to stumble upon a thread on here.

I would never consider buying a scope knowing what I know now... But I think it's quite a shame that there are people such as us that made an honest mistake. Call it ignorance, but really unless you are really up to date on that kind of thing, who would assume optics would fall under restrictions of firearms import ?... To most, it seems they wouldn't be much different than a pair of binoculars.
 
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... I don't blame Canadian dealers or whatnot for not supporting the product under warranty. I blame dumb political policies for that. However, you'd think the people in question would try to help out as much as possible... I don't know, maybe give the person a deal of some kind on work that would otherwise be covered under warranty... Something. Don't just basically slam the door in the customer's face... Because the circumstances behind things aren't always as simple as they may seem.

After I found out about ITAR, I quizzed probably 25 other people about it, all just regular basic hunters like myself, and I never came across one person that had any idea there were issues with buying a scope south of the border and bringing it home. Apparently it couldn't matter any less to Canadian customs officers... I know one guy that was told by a customs officer upon declaring the scope "nice scope, enjoy it."
 
BigUglyMan said:
This isn't flying the space ship. Buy a smuggled scope and you could be SOL. This isn't a Nightforce problem, it's a ITAR problem. Don't like ITAR? Run for President.
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If you buy a Leopold from Bass Pro in Canada, there is no.warranty here either because it didn't come through Korth. Korth doesn't care if they came in legally either, they only care if they get their cut.
How's that for putting the screws to the consumer?
 
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DILLIGAF said:
Why should he support people that didn't pay him to import it legally?
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He is not supporting the people, he is supporting Nightforce! When you are a dealer for S&B or NF or Leupold or ... you should support the brand/manufacturer/product line regardless if you sold the individual item or not. What difference does ITAR make to the warranty of a scope? Does ITAR void warranties?
What happens if Peter goes out of business? There are Nightforce dealers that will say "Go back to where you bought it for service". Where does this leave the buyer?

Also, If it was pre-ITAR, then it was imported legally.

It's always the end user that gets screwed. Most of these companies are all the same, they will use any excuse possible to avoid their lifetime warranty claim. I have a broken scope that Canada Post wants to prorate the usage on the scope, plus depreciation... So that they want to give me $500 for a $2000 scope. Yes, I had insurance, pictures, documentation...
 
"Also, If it was pre-ITAR, then it was imported legally." Not necessarily: I've ben in a car returning from the USA where a friend did not declare scopes in order to avoid duty. This is smuggling.

Nightforce and other very top companies go out of their way to assist and so do most of the dealers. The above post is inflammatory at best.

To assist with Canada Post claim, simply support ACV(actual cash value) which is usually market value. Get written estimates from dealers.

Regards,

Peter
 
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Hitzy said:
If you buy a Leopold from Bass Pro in Canada, there is no.warranty here either because it didn't come through Korth. Korth doesn't care if they came in legally either, they only care if they get their cut.
How's that for putting the screws to the consumer?
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They shouldn't get their cut? After they have put in the legwork and investment to be the importer and warranty center? Is this North Korea?
 
Just heard from Nightforce and they will check serial numbers should customer be seeking warranty in Canada. Please, no more "it shouldn't matter if it was smuggled".

Also please read skullboys thread: "Importation Of Scopes Into Canada From The U.S."

Regards,

Peter
 
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BigUglyMan said:
They shouldn't get their cut? After they have put in the legwork and investment to be the importer and warranty center? Is this North Korea?
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Just saying on one hand they deny scope warranty on scopes bought outside of Canada (with that as the reason) and then on the other hand deny scope warranty for scopes bought in Canada, because they are not ones they imported. How in the name of fck is that anything but crooked as fck?
Bass Pro is big enough they don't need to go through the ridiculous "middle man" distribution system to bring in Leopold scopes. Maybe they should open up a Leopold warranty center here too since Korth is only interested in fixing their own scopes. Ridiculous scumbag company.
 
I think there is a HUGE misunderstanding going on here.

NF is NOT denying warranty to anyone. They WILL cover all warranty problems.
Where the glitch is, is in the fact that unless the scope was originally exported under an export license that can be proved if need be, they cannot ship it back to Canada due to ITAR regulations. IF the scope was not exported under an export license by any means regardless of whether it is ignorance of laws, or downright purposeful smuggling the fact is that they cannot ship it back.
SO any dealer can get an RMA, but some don't want to bother preferring to let other dealers offer the customer service, any dealer can ship the scope back to NF for repair, HOWEVER unless the scopes serial number can be traced to an export license, the scope then stays in the USA.

This is NOT a NF or a Canadian dealer thing this is strictly a USA federal law at work. The fines levied for non compliance of ITAR rules are staggering which is why so many US suppliers and manufacturers do not export.
 
alberta tactical rifle said:
I think there is a HUGE misunderstanding going on here.

NF is NOT denying warranty to anyone. They WILL cover all warranty problems.
Where the glitch is, is in the fact that unless the scope was originally exported under an export license that can be proved if need be, they cannot ship it back to Canada due to ITAR regulations. IF the scope was not exported under an export license by any means regardless of whether it is ignorance of laws, or downright purposeful smuggling the fact is that they cannot ship it back.
SO any dealer can get an RMA, but some don't want to bother preferring to let other dealers offer the customer service, any dealer can ship the scope back to NF for repair, HOWEVER unless the scopes serial number can be traced to an export license, the scope then stays in the USA.

This is NOT a NF or a Canadian dealer thing this is strictly a USA federal law at work. The fines levied for non compliance of ITAR rules are staggering which is why so many US suppliers and manufacturers do not export.
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Ok, if an individual can actually get a permit to export/import a scope... Which is my understanding, then why wouldn't the company work with the consumer that way ? They do the repair, customer does the paperwork... Or is that possible ? (I really don't know)

Also, in the case of korth, which apparently can do all repair work on-site, why wouldn't they do the work if the scope doesn't have to be sent back south of the border ?
 
steve-o1979 said:
Ok, if an individual can actually get a permit to export/import a scope... Which is my understanding, then why wouldn't the company work with the consumer that way ? They do the repair, customer does the paperwork... Or is that possible ? (I really don't know)

Also, in the case of korth, which apparently can do all repair work on-site, why wouldn't they do the work if the scope doesn't have to be sent back south of the border ?
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An individual CAN get an IIC, however a US export license can only be obtained either by the NF or a licensed US exporter. In the case of NF they will only export to 1 of their authorized dealers and as mentioned unless the scope can be proven to have been legally exported originally they cannot export it.

Basically it boils down to anyone looking to purchase an expensive scope or any commodity for that matter should take the few minutes and get up to speed on the rules and regulations applicable to the product they are purchasing. Ignorance of the laws is never a defense.
The world has tons of rules and laws that many of us don't like, but they still exist and have implications that are not always sunshine and warm fuzzy feelings.

I won't speak to the Leupold debate as it is far more complex.

The easiest way to avoid these issues is to purchase the goods regardless of the nature from a reputable dealer within the country you live in.
That way warranty is never an issue and you have FAR more recourse.
 
I agree we should get up to date on the laws in regard to whatever it is we are doing or purchasing... But even though ignorance of the law is never a defence, most generally for someone to look into something they need at least a little suspicion that there is a reason to do so. As far as scopes go, and the legality of exporting them, maybe a sign on a display case would be an easy way to let people know.
I know personally, if I were to go to a sporting goods store in the states to buy something, I would suspect there may be regulations on a knife...where it could be easily used as a weapon, or even ammunition....but for something like a scope I'm fairly sure that 95% of the common population would have absolutely no idea about there being any kind of laws governing their export. I also would bet that about most hunters would never have a clue either. Maybe most serious sport shooters and gun buffs do, but I think it's safe to say that this is a very poorly advertised issue.
I know there will always those willing to do things the wrong way for the sake of saving a buck... But I also know that there are many that would never consider it if they had ever heard of something like ITAR. Maybe even something as simple as a salesman asking "is this leaving the country ?" The only way I ever heard of it was from this site... And I'm glad I did. It's now a mistake that I will never make.
 
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