Wartime refurb 91/30 PU?

[ChungTzu]

After doing a lot of research, I decided to buy this 1943 Izhevsk 91/30 PU rifle as my second rifle. This rifle was interesting to me because it seems to retain its original scope (from Factory 237 in Kazan) matched to the serial stamped on the barrel shank, as is standard for Izhevsk 91/30 PUs, and I didn't see any evidence of grinding out the serial and restamping.

The rifle also appears to have had its buttplate, magazine floorplate, and bolt force-matched to it, but the stock is correct to the period the rifle was built, with a half-liner in the rear sling slot and "ОГ" military representative stamp dating it to mid-1943 or so.

I don't detect the usual postwar arsenal refurbishment stamps like the square with a diagonal line, so it seems like the rifle was refurbed/repaired during the war and mostly left alone after?

Just wanted to share, would be interested to get any knowledgeable members' thoughts.

 

[bearhunter]

Definitely had a refurb. The original serial number on the top of the butt plate has been stamped over, and it's been force matched to the barrel serial number.

Lots of original stamps on the stock have been sanded over.

I've never seen an M91/30 sniper with a scope bracket without serial numbers stamped or electropenciled.

It may have been replaced, or it's a fake/repro. There were lots of spares available and sold as surplus at one time.

I don't see any stamps from any of the more famous "repro" builders, so it could have been done by a DIYer with some good skill sets.

It's a nice looking rifle.

 

[Mark-II]

I thought that the red lacquer was a post war finish?

But, yeah, it's been sanded on and redone. I bought mine more than a decade ago and it's similar in finish, with force matched parts, of course.

They're nice rifles, however. A piece of history frozen in time. Consider that the Soviet "last ditch" rifles came mainly from '43, where the finish is at its crudest, and machine steps missing. They got steadily better after that, if still not as nice as pre war rifles, as the war swung in their favour.

Funny world that today a crate grade 91/30 costs as much as my sniper rifles did back in the day. The great milsurp era is in its end days...

 

[ChungTzu]

I've never seen an M91/30 sniper with a scope bracket without serial numbers stamped or electropenciled.

It may have been replaced, or it's a fake/repro. There were lots of spares available and sold as surplus at one time.

The electro pencil on the bracket is done if during the refurb the rifle is mated to a new scope and/or mount. If this is not done then there is no need for them to stamp or write on the mount, as below:



Generally, Izhevsk did not stamp numbers on their mounts, only Tula did. Scope mounts would get the rifle and/or scope serials written on them during refurb if they were matched to new rifles during the refurb.



Also fairly certain the rifle itself was originally built as a sniper, as it has the half-insert in the rear stockl. This was exclusively done for Izhevsk PU snipers between '42 to early '44 and according to Yushchenko on m9130.info it's 'considered a good point in the verification of PU sniper originality'.



The bolt has a 'GIS' Russian export stamp so it's pretty likely it has stayed with the rifle since at least before it was exported to Canada.

I thought that the red lacquer was a post war finish?

But, yeah, it's been sanded on and redone. I bought mine more than a decade ago and it's similar in finish, with force matched parts, of course.

This is actually incorrect, the red lacquer (VK-1) was introduced in 1940 and was used before, during, and after the war in refurbs and new-build rifles, according to Yushchenko.




But yeah, it would not surprise me if the finish was redone at some point. But I think the scope and the stock have been retained at least with the rifle. I'm just wondering whether it was done during the war or not since I can't find any postwar arsenal stamps yet.

 

[Horilka]

You're using correct sources, Alex's web-site, you're making correct observations, but you're making strange conclusions.
- This rifle exhibits all traits of post-war refurbishment, and it is post-war refurb. Just because arsenal marking is absent doesn't mean it is not.
- War time reworks (I prefer to call them reworks/repairs as it was the goal, not refurbishment) in some cases would have same repair arsenal markings as post-war one, with addition of many other types of war-time repair markings.

 

[ChungTzu]

You're using correct sources, Alex's web-site, you're making correct observations, but you're making strange conclusions.
- This rifle exhibits all traits of post-war refurbishment, and it is post-war refurb. Just because arsenal marking is absent doesn't mean it is not.
- War time reworks (I prefer to call them reworks/repairs as it was the goal, not refurbishment) in some cases would have same repair arsenal markings as post-war one, with addition of many other types of war-time repair markings.

You're probably right. I'm honestly just happy I could find a genuine sniper. Does it look to you that the scope and stock was kept with the rifle through the post-war refurb? Both appear to be correct for the rifle's date of production.

 

[bearhunter]

Anything is possible with these rifles. Much depends on when and where the FTR was done.

It's a nice rifle, searching out the history is at least 50% of the fun.

You should get in touch with Horilka through PMs and exchange emails.

The man knows his stuff and has details on these rifles that are often difficult to weed out online.

Language traslations have a lot to do with misconceptions.

I believe Horilka speaks the languages in the original manuals and documentation. This helps a lot.